r/nottheonion Sep 28 '22 Helpful 2 Wholesome 1 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Table Flip 1

Ohio exempts clergy from reporting abuse

https://www.wtrf.com/ohio/ohio-exempts-clergy-from-reporting-abuse/
41.2k Upvotes

1.1k

u/blackbart1 Sep 29 '22

"A 2003 Maryland bill would have closed the clergy reporting loophole, but a successful campaign to defeat the proposal was led by a Catholic cardinal who would later be defrocked for sexually abusing children and seminarians. A 2004 version would have required clergy to report while acting outside their clerical role. Both bills died in committee." Unbelievable.

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u/DjangotheKid Sep 29 '22

Outside of the specific context of confession, priests should absolutely be required to do mandatory reporting, that no pisses me off. I wish every curse upon McCarrick.

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u/Oxygenius_ Sep 29 '22

Just goes to show you how evil these “laws” can be.

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u/Sharticus123 Sep 29 '22

It’s shocking how many people equate legal with moral.

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u/Synkope1 Sep 29 '22

I think even with confession, if there's a risk that they will hurt themselves or somebody else, aren't they asked to report it? I know doctors are.

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u/kjacobs03 Sep 29 '22

Asking a pedophile to turn in a pedophile is asking a lot

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u/Unique_name256 Sep 29 '22

Seriously, if you're a pedophile today why wouldn't you want to join the Catholic clergy? I bet they recruit a very high percentage of pedophiles. It's a good chance that any Catholic priest or pastor or whatever you call them is a child rapist.

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u/Taj_Mahole Sep 29 '22

I would say that kind of behavior from the church is very, very believable.

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u/originaljimeez Sep 28 '22

What the actual fuck? But then again, I guess we shouldn't be surprised.

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u/Fake_William_Shatner Sep 28 '22

Well, sure the actual fuck. Not the "no fucks going on here" places that they put the security monitors in.

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u/_pureguava Sep 28 '22

Ohio is for rapists

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u/Fake_William_Shatner Sep 28 '22

Virginia is for Lovers*

*allegedly.

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u/miauguau44 Sep 29 '22

After Younkin?

Virginia is for straight, married, monogamous Lovers with the lights turned off.

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u/renegadetoast Sep 29 '22

I just moved here right before he got elected, so I didn't get a chance to register and vote against him, but he is absolutely not popular with the bulk of Virginians I've met. Voter apathy on the side of the Dems is what got him elected.

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u/thehelldoesthatmean Sep 29 '22

Him using CRT as a boogieman to scare racist housewives is what got him elected.

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u/WhiskyAndPlastic Sep 29 '22 edited Sep 29 '22

He also acted like mandatory mask-wearing policies in schools at the height of covid was the worst crime imaginable, and idiot conservatives ate that shit up. He would later ban masking policies under the guise of "parental rights."

Make no mistake, "parental rights" is the new christian wedge strategy. This is the same cover Youngkin in using for his anti-trans bullshit. The only rights they care about are the rights of christian parents to jam christian values into public schools.

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u/thebearbearington Sep 29 '22

Only missionary and preferably just for soaking

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u/Budget-Falcon767 Sep 29 '22

How would he know? He's never even there.

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u/xaanthar Sep 29 '22

However, interracial is still okay because of Loving v. Virginia

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u/RC_8015__ Sep 29 '22

I'm stuck out here in Virginia, in a small country town, I'm a mixed dude in a gay marriage with two kids, it is not a good time out here. Kids threaten to kill my daughter and son and the whole family because of this, for reference my kids are 12 and 6. The kids say their parents tell them they can't wait until it's legal to kill us (could be bluster because it's asshole kids), but the schools do jack shit, just pretend to take care of it but nothing happens. The school resource officer refuses to even talk to me. The teachers are awesome though, and there's still a lot of really nice people around too, but more dumb jerks definitely. I mean, there's a dude that has this giant flag that kids have to see on the way to school because it's Ike right down the road that says "fuck Joe Biden". So yeah, I mean up northern Virginia and RVA are cool but a lot of the small places like this are what got Youngkin in, just really sucks. People are stupid.

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u/entarian Sep 28 '22

This planet is done.

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u/mdquak Sep 29 '22

Doctor Farnsworth has entered the chat. Doctor Farnsworth has left the chat

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u/CMDR_Evelyn Sep 29 '22

The planet is fine. It's us who are finished.

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u/TigerMcPherson Sep 29 '22

I mean, we are taking out a HUGE portion of life on earth with us. Not just us.

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u/QuinndianaJonez Sep 29 '22

Cosmically that happens pretty often though. It'll be fine, just probably not for us.

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u/TigerMcPherson Sep 29 '22

Oh. That’s quite the long view. I guess by “us” you mean all earthlings?

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u/sith4life88 Sep 29 '22

It was a sick ostrich!

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u/sgfreak711 Sep 29 '22

Only Christian rapists.

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u/trwawy05312015 Sep 29 '22

Well, not only Christian rapists, but as usual Christians get preference.

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u/Pagan_Princess67 Sep 29 '22

Sadly, after looking at several states in the article, Ohio is NOT alone and probably not the worst. PA has tried to change the law an astonishing amount of times but always has a loophole for “confessions”. Personally, I get there being SOME restrictions on what clergy reports but if there’s possible crime involved, those protections should go out the window and they should be investigated like everyone else.

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u/paperwasp3 Sep 29 '22 Starry

They should have the same duty to report as an officer of the court. That includes fellow priests that are pedo.

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u/Pagan_Princess67 Sep 29 '22

EXACTLY 😒

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u/damnedspot Sep 29 '22

Someone that knows sexual abuse is going on and does not report it should be considered an accessory to the crime. Even therapists report illegal activity if it's discovered in confidence.

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u/Zev0s Sep 29 '22

I can't make it on my own

Because my church is in Ohio

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u/stupidpunname54 Sep 29 '22

Well cut my wrists and black my eyes.... its not for lovers?

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u/Ok-Ordinary2035 Sep 29 '22

So true- just ask the 10 year olds

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u/B9f4zze Sep 29 '22

And their forced birth fetuses

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u/engineereddiscontent Sep 29 '22

Seriously. We should put the Ohio state government on an NSA watch list...

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u/surfandturfburrito Sep 29 '22

Ohio is for religious rapists

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '22

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u/Jwhitx Sep 29 '22

Gym Jordan is from hell and he should return asap.

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u/MonkeyTacoBreath Sep 28 '22

Probably so they can blackmail parishioners into letting them diddle their kids.

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u/fuckedbythechurch Sep 28 '22

That’s basically what happened to me. Raped at 5 with my sister who was 7. Our parents colluded with the LDS Mormon church and a Mormon Police Officer to hide the rapes. My teacher who reported the crimes to CPS tried so hard to save us. But the Church, our parents and the rapists won.

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u/xombae Sep 29 '22

I'm so sorry that happened to you. I have a friend who grew up Mormon and the stories she has are fucked. I hope you got away.

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u/fuckedbythechurch Sep 29 '22

Thank you kind redditor. I did get away. My sister didn’t. She joined the 27 club.

I’m old now, the statutes passed long ago - but they never mattered because the fucking church was involved.

Anyway, I’m ok. I’ll never be good. I have meds, doctor and therapy. But the last thought in my head will be that i hope my parents are Mormon Hell, aka Outer Darkness.

I hope your friend is ok. LDS Mormonism is a cult that destroys children and families.

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u/TYC4 Sep 29 '22

A new law just passed recently that removes the statute of limitations for child sex abuse victims. I know it probably won't change anything, but just letting you know. https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/3647958-biden-signs-bill-eliminating-civil-statute-of-limitations-for-child-sex-abuse-victims/

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u/Andromansis Sep 29 '22

Didn't they just remove the statute of limitations on stuff like that so you can sue the ink off them?

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u/fuckedbythechurch Sep 29 '22

Yah, but only federal. State statues, the ones that matter, are still favorable for abusers and religious institutions that hide them.

My co-victim is dead. A dirty cop stole record from CPS I’m the late 1980s. My case is hopeless. I’m surviving without justice.

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u/Hopalongtom Sep 29 '22

Shouldn't federal law still overrule state in such matters.

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u/Cococrunchy Sep 29 '22

Really sorry to hear this. I still can't understand how parents can allow this? I don't think I will be hiding this if it happens to my kids

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u/Giocri Sep 28 '22

It is pretty common for countries to exempt religious figures from reporting crimes because they have a religious obligation of secrecy on confessions.

Still quite fucked up in my opinion prote the well-being of people should be seen as clearly more important than a religious belief

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u/Klaus0225 Sep 28 '22

I’m the US Not even doctor patient confidentiality goes that far. If a person tells their therapist they are abusing their child, the therapist has to report it.

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u/bearatrooper Sep 28 '22

Yeah, in medicine it's usually called "duty to report." Typically that goes for non-medical staff in medical facilities as well, like custodial and security.

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u/a_pompous_fool Sep 28 '22

In my state at least all state employees are mandatory reporters

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u/Gazebo_Placebo Sep 29 '22

That’s because health care falls under science and facts as opposed to religion and beliefs.

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u/crackhappy Sep 29 '22

How fucking dare you. I believe that Naan from the Sequitur Galaxy is going to raise me up at the end of my life. Any attempt to dissuade me from my beliefs will be met with outrage and scorn.

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u/Ez13zie Sep 28 '22

So, the clergy is essentially just figuring out which kids have already been victimized? This will not end well.

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u/Patrick0351 Sep 28 '22

Yeah. I'm from Ohio and I couldn't agree more. This will get seriously ugly

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u/lmaginaryMenagerie Sep 28 '22

This has been in effect forever. Whatever negative effects there are - and the article goes into detail - already exist. There’s no “will” about it at all.

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u/NSA_Chatbot Sep 29 '22

Probably the ten-year-olds who are trying to get abortions.

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u/orbgevski Sep 29 '22

The issue with Catholicism is that a priest will be automatically excommunicated for reporting something said in confession. If your Catholic that means you can't go to heaven. So even if they didn't have this exemption,most priests still wouldn't report abuse.

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u/PM_ME_UR_POKIES_GIRL Sep 29 '22

I'm sure God will fondly welcome into his bosom all those priests who aided and abetted child rapists.

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u/belinck Sep 29 '22

Pretty sure not even attorney client privilege, if the client directly speaking about intent to commit a crime.

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u/shutchomouf Sep 28 '22

They shouldn’t be exempt from this nor taxes

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u/FearGunner Sep 28 '22

they have a religious obligation of secrecy on confession

To me, that's a sick concept in and of itself.

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u/LesbianCommander Sep 28 '22

They said that like it's normal and should be met with like "ohhh okay then".

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u/douko Sep 28 '22

"Hey, I told them reporting for instance murder & child rape is a good thing; they told me they see otherwise. What am I, an allegedly moral person, to do BUT capitulate wholeheartedly?"

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u/turkeypedal Sep 29 '22

Not so much normal, but more like fairly obvious. Most people know what confession is, even if they it's not something they practice. For the concept to work, you must be able to confess literally anything. And it stands to reason that people will not confess to things that they know will be told to others.

That's a downside to mandated reporting that people miss. It makes confessions (whether to priests or anyone else) far less likely. I hate it when it comes to psychologists, as it means people won't tell of things like wanting to commit suicide unless they want to be stopped.

Where mandatory reporting works best is in situations where the person (1) has to be there and (2) you are reporting signs. Someone actually telling a mandatory reporter incriminating information is not unheard of, but still quite rare.

What priests do sometimes do is tell people that they can't receive absolution unless they report their crime to the police. If the criminal cares enough to go to a priest, then saying they'll go to hell seems like very good motivation to get them to confess.

Like it or not, priests have been willing to die rather than violate the the sanctity of Confession. So laws mandating they report stuff is unlikely to be effective.

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u/acejohn Sep 29 '22

What priests do sometimes do is tell people that they can't receive absolution unless they report their crime to the police

They're literally not allowed to do this. At least, Catholic priests aren't.

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u/Cuckleberry_Simp Sep 29 '22

Uh, everybody is exempt from snitching lol. ACAB, don't talk to anybody about anything.

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u/No-Demand-2972 Sep 28 '22

This actually happens often.

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u/lego_office_worker Sep 28 '22

Thirty-three states exempt clergy from laws requiring professionals such as teachers and doctors to report information about alleged child abuse to police or child welfare officials if the church deems the information privileged, an Associated Press review has found.

I think this is mostly related to Catholics and Mormons. They unilaterally oppose such legislation. These organizations wield a huge amount of political power. In some states like Utah, most of the legislature is Mormon, so you'll never change the law there.

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u/SamSepiol-ER28_0652 Sep 28 '22 Facepalm

It’s even more fucked up when you understand that most Mormon “clergy” aren’t clergy. They take regular ass dudes like dentists and accountants and “call” them to be a bishop, believing God anoints and enables regular men to become “clergy.” They aren’t ordained. They aren’t trained. They didn’t go to seminary. They are just a regular dude who almost never has any formal training in counseling or theology or anything. And that makes up like 90% of the Mormon church’s “clergy.”

And those bishops regularly have “worthiness interviews” where they ask people if they masturbate or watch porn or otherwise fail to keep “the law of chastity.” All adult members who want to attend the temple are subject to these interviews at least every two years- often much more frequently if the member admits to any porn use or other indiscretion.

And what’s even MORE fucked up is it is church policy to subject youth 12 years old or older to the same interviews, behind closed doors, with just the bishop and the child. There are people in the church trying to change it but the church continues maintain that those interviews are necessary and must be conducted one on one. So many Mormon kids hear about masturbation for the first time because a middle aged dude asks them if they have done it. Yes, including the girls. It’s so beyond screwed up.

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u/Medium_Medium Sep 28 '22

They aren’t ordained. They aren’t trained. They didn’t go to seminary.

I get what you're saying... but also it doesn't really seem like the religions that do require these kinds of things avoid bad apples, either.

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u/Real_Jackraps Sep 29 '22

Bad apples has nothing to do with learning your own religion's theology. If we're talking about the rest of the stuff then yeah not many organizations want to admit liability.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/sriracha_no_big_deal Sep 29 '22

Plus the Mormons cycle through Bishops every 4-5 years by default. By the time a kid who was born in the church turns 18, they will have had 4 or 5 different Bishops, most of whom will have conducted annual one-on-one "worthiness" interviews from age 12 onward. In these one-on-one interviews, the child/teen will likely be asked questions about sex, masturbation, and pornography, often in excruciating detail. Bishops will often want to know specific details of "transgressions" to determine how serious they are and what the requirements will be in order for the child/teen to receive full forgiveness and be in a good standing with God.

When there are this many potential opportunities for a predator to have a position of power combined with a doctrinal requirement for these "worthiness" interviews where questions and topics of a sexual nature are brought up between a child/teen and a middle-aged man, the result is a breeding ground for potential child abuse.

I don't think enough people know the nitty-gritty about the Mormon church and how horrible the church actually is. Not all members are bad, but the church organization itself is rotten to the core.

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u/Dritalin Sep 29 '22

I'm not Mormon anymore, but that's one of the things I actually like about the Mormon Church. I had some bishops who jerks, some really cool guys and some dorks.

They were just regular ass dudes from the ward, and they changed every couple years. If they were bad the Stake could and did change them often.

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u/keimdhall Sep 29 '22

Same. And while I never had a "bad" leader in my time with the church (thank god) I'm not going to deny the fact that there were and are. I knew of a few from my home stake while my dad was on the high council.

After all, as you said, they're just regular people who get asked to an irregular position.

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u/Ok-disaster2022 Sep 28 '22

You say this as if seminary is some regulated impartial standards place, but all religions operate without governmental oversight. Most (protestant) churches I know have cursory background checks undertaken by standard professional organisations to make sure there's nothing outstanding in th past if those applying to work there, but that's as much to protect them from liability as it is to protect the children and members if the church.

All systems are liable for abuse, and the less oversight and transparency involved the greater the oppurtunity for abuse.

Catholic regulation around confessional tend to protect the priest listening to confession from ever using that information. But to me a priest who refuses to report sex abusers should be charged and sent to prison. They can continue ministry in prison so it shouldn't limit their professional goals.

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u/SamSepiol-ER28_0652 Sep 29 '22

I mean, in my time Christianity most of my pastors had masters in counseling or social work or something similar, and they felt called to the ministry as lifetime call. Yeah- I believe that makes them more likely to better suited for the job than Rob the engineer who never gave it a thought until he was told it was his turn for a few years. I think intent/desire as well as preparation make someone a better candidate. Sue me.

Does that mean that there aren't ALSO shitty pastors and priests? No. But they are statistically more likely to be prepared for the job than a dude whose training included being handed a binder.

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u/TheDunadan29 Sep 29 '22

Well and because of the celibacy requirement for Catholics, you do end up getting a lot of people who think they should join the priesthood to not have to deal with their own sexual deviancy. I knew a guy who wanted to be a priest, but ended up not going. Later left the church and came out as gay. Which not saying anything bad about gay people. But there are other people who might be dealing with, ahem, "other" nonstandard sexual desires, that are actually drawn to forced celibacy to not have to deal with their repressed feelings.

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u/SwoleWalrus Sep 28 '22

I love how Mormons flex on how their clergy are volunteer based like they dont have the cash to pay.

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u/SaltyScrotumSauce Sep 28 '22

Remember when we found out 2 years ago that the Mormon Church has a 100 billion dollar investment fund that nobody knew about before then?

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u/radicon Sep 29 '22

What the actual fuck

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u/DrFunkyLove Sep 29 '22

God requires lots of money

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u/supagirl277 Sep 29 '22

I thought it was 180 billion

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u/zMerovingian Sep 29 '22

Based on how the value of assets has gone up overall since the $100bn was disclosed, that’s very likely. That also excludes their real estate assets. Oh, and they bring in $8bn+ per year from tithing.

Oh, and they don’t disclose their finances to anyone that’s not privileged to know. They essentially say “we have audited ourselves and found that there is no wrong-doing” and that’s it.

Imagine giving to a charity organization whose mission you truly believe in and support, believing that they use the money to feed the poor, help provide housing for homeless people, etc. Then imagine you find out that they don’t actually do the charity they claim to. Instead, they put all that money (some of which was yours) into investment funds and pay their high level leaders pretty generously (plus pay their living expenses, give them a captive audience to sell books and such to) but they don’t pay anyone else. You’d be pretty pissed off. I was too. I’m an exmormon for many reasons, this being one of them.

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u/Obvious_Moose Sep 28 '22

Or that their higher ups pull massive salaries and have most expenses paid by the church.

Also, it's kind of telling how many lawyers make it to the 70...

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u/supagirl277 Sep 29 '22

Also that the church is technically a business, and they take advantage of their tax exempt status as a church at the same time

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u/Troglokhan Sep 29 '22

Don't forget the Amish. They will go to great lengths to not involve law-enforcement in to their community. No matter how dark the issue they are hiding is.

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u/Derpimus_J Sep 28 '22

I'm sure the Jehovah's Witnesses will also love this legislation. That way they also can tell their elders not to report abuse to the authorities.

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u/SanctuaryMoon Sep 29 '22

Don't forget Baptists

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u/bobsnopes Sep 29 '22

And Scientologists.

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u/SaltyScrotumSauce Sep 28 '22

Looks like the real groomers were the pastors and priests we met along the way.

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u/TomsRedditAccount1 Sep 29 '22

Haven't we already known that for years?

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '22

Basically a fundraising tool. They can legally keep quiet while receiving donations and absolving pedos of their sins.

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u/cakeresurfacer Sep 28 '22

Just did virtus training for the Catholic Church - any person in an authority position (ie teacher, principal, coach, priest, etc) who has an accusation brought to them is required to call the police before they call the diocese.

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u/angelerulastiel Sep 28 '22

This is probably primarily focused at confession. If someone confesses during Reconciliation the priest can require confessing to the police for absolution, but the priest can’t reveal it.

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u/solomonjsolomon Sep 29 '22

Yeah. People here don’t really understand. A lot of states also have a clergy-penitent legal privilege, so that your priest cannot be compelled to testify against you in a court of law on the basis of what you said in the confessional booth. If a priest understood that another priest was committing a sex crime they would be obligated to report to the police on different grounds.

We can debate about whether it’s sound policy. I personally think if psychologists are going to be mandatory reporters priests should be too, but we should at least be honest about what we’re debating.

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u/BobHope4477 Sep 29 '22

It was interesting to read that even in California the church's stopped a law that would have required priests to report rape by other priests if they learned about it in confession

In 2019, then-California state Sen. Jerry Hill proposed a bill (SB-360) that would have required clergy to report reasonable suspicion of child abuse or neglect by other clergy members or coworkers that they learned of during confessions. The bill was placed on hold after opposition from the Catholic Church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and other religious groups.

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u/batrick Sep 29 '22

Priests cannot require revealing the sins to police to obtain absolution. See also: https://www.osvnews.com/amp/2018/10/10/valid-absolution/

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u/angelerulastiel Sep 29 '22

I phrased it badly trying to get the idea to people who aren’t familiar. Confession is not just listing of what you’ve done wrong and then it’s all better. There has to be sincere repentance and action to avoid committing the sin in the future. If you aren’t intending to make a change then your confession isn’t valid. And if the priest sincerely believes you aren’t making a valid confession, such as refusing to accept the consequences of your actions, they can deny absolution. People hear about confession and hear “all you have to do is say you’re sorry and then it’s all better and you can keep on sinning”. And just because you fooled the priest doesn’t mean you fooled God.

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u/MFDork Sep 28 '22

I mean, you say that, and then you look at the actual behavior of the church.

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u/DoctorWaluigiTime Sep 29 '22

Also the Reddit title is bullshit clickbait. Ohio has this clergy loophole and has forever. They just didn't remove it in the latest alteration to the law:

In recent years the Ohio Legislature has extended the statute of limitations for reporting abuse in response to the latest priest abuse scandals, but there have been no legislative efforts to remove the clergy-penitent privilege itself.

The clickbait title here (look at all those awards and karma) imply it's a recent new thing added. And that the article is just about the state (kind of randomly selected tbh) and not the real issue with 2/3 of the country supporting it.

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u/wwarnout Sep 28 '22

These organizations wield a huge amount of political power.

Therefore, their tax-exempt status should be revoked.

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u/bigbangbilly Sep 28 '22

First you have to go through their political power for that

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u/LL22Forever Sep 29 '22

Mormonism doesn’t even have a doctrinal concept of priest penitent privilege though. The Mormon church only wants these laws so that can shield themselves from liability. I was Mormon and on several occasions the local church members found out about things I told the bishop within a week of me telling him and I never told anyone else.

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u/QuestionableAI Sep 28 '22

"The calls are coming from inside the house of worship."

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '22

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u/D4H_Snake Sep 28 '22

The 5th amendment protects you from self incrimination in court while testifying under oath. Basically if you’re being questioned in court and your choice for answering a question are to lie under oath (which is a crime) or admit to commting a crime, you can plead the 5th. It doesn’t protect you from not reporting a crime you know is happening that you’re not involved in.

There are however laws that say if you know a specific crime is going to be committed and you don’t take significant steps to prevent it, such as telling law enforcement, then you are guilt of being an accomplice to that crime, even if you don’t take part in it.

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u/Kimorin Sep 29 '22

It doesn’t protect you from not reporting a crime you know is happening that you’re not involved in.

I think that's the joke

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u/mybluecathasballs Sep 29 '22

Wait. So if I know of a crime, I have to report it, or risk being implicated myself?

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u/Zaros262 Sep 29 '22

AFAIK "mandatory reporter" laws are specifically for child abuse, not like noticing someone shoplifting

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u/Vapur9 Sep 29 '22

Suicide isn't against the law. "Mandated Reporter" laws criminalized speech beyond what is a crime (i.e., Baker Act). It also includes reporting on someone who is a danger to others, not just children.

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u/alaska1415 Sep 29 '22

That’s not what an accomplice is. You’d have to aid them in some material way in order to be an accomplice.

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u/lolofaf Sep 29 '22

There are also laws where even if you are committing a crime if someone gets injured and you call it in you can't be charged for the original crime. Usually applies to illegal drug/alcohol usage

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u/MangOrion2 Sep 29 '22

I used to work for an advocacy group that helped women come forward about abuse and offer to mediate as a third party between the church and the people accusing them.

The American Christian church is completely uninterested in accountability, investigating cases of abuse by clergy, helping people who were abused, or ousting abusers. The number of cover-ups I saw going on to protect men within the church who had abused women either physically or sexually was truly terrifying.

When I started the job, I foolishly didn't take the advice of the people I worked with and didn't delete my social medias. The amount of harassment I received was unreal. I was threatened dozens of times in various ways. The women who came forward got it much, much worse online.

Sexual abuse in every denomination of the American Christian church is a huge, gigantic problem and we are currently in an age where the Church can discredit anyone it wants by simply calling them or the support they may receive "woke" and inciting people to harass them. What's worse is these women are taught to be ashamed of the things done to them and they submit to the power structures that abuse them. I heard the most vile, disgusting things I've ever heard in my life listening to religious people excuse r_pe, sexual harassment, all forms of abuse, anti-gay conversion methods and more. The Church's views on these things are violently dangerous and their radicalization about them is only growing.

I watched a pastor walk into a meeting with a woman who had come forward about him molesting her and her daughter and say "what is it going to take for you to put this behind you and stop interfering with what God is trying to do in this congregation." His attitude during the meeting was completely smug and condescending. When he was confronted with proof of the abuse he just left. The woman was warned by the church's board to drop the issue and go to a different church they were associated with. He was too popular. A pillar of the community or whatever. What's worse is that's exactly what she did. She didn't press charges because she didn't want her daughter in the spotlight and to receive the level of harassment she already was because she went to a Christian school with all the kids who also went to their church. This mentality has infected the religious mainstream and is hurting people all over the US every day.

The worst part of all of this is so many religious men have attitudes about abuse that scare me a lot. If a new guy I've met tells me he's a Christian or I see him wearing religious clothes or accessories, I just make the assumption he has a few damaging opinions about women that I won't agree with. That's the fault of the church and their unwillingness to stand and advocate for women and teach their young men to be respectful and to treat women in a way that makes them feel safe and be safe.

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u/Urban_Savage Sep 29 '22

Thirty-three states exempt clergy from laws requiring professionals such as teachers and doctors to report information about alleged child abuse to police or child welfare officials if the church deems the information privileged, an Associated Press review has found.

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u/sanjsrik Sep 28 '22 Narwhal Salute

It's. Ohio. South of the north.

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u/thatonedude570 Sep 28 '22

That would be Indiana. They are still trying, though!

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u/SenorSplashdamage Sep 28 '22 Narwhal Salute

The southernification of Ohio in my lifetime has been the saddest thing ever. The Ohio I knew as a kid would be so sad about the norms now.

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u/MNgineer10 Sep 29 '22

You can thank the Red Map project for that. They targeted Ohio successfully and it’s a shit show for the citizens.

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u/collegeatari Sep 29 '22

Ohio was filled with a political group that is all but extinct now. The conservative Christian democrat, the old union blood that kept to themselves nose down and practiced religion quietly.

I grew up here and watched those people be converted to right wing nut bags with Christianity as the lure. The next generation was right wing and racist.

I like it here and am ever saddened by the amount of times I see us in the news for this stupid shit.

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u/ShakespearInTheAlley Sep 29 '22

I left Ohio in 2016 and am saddened by how it doesn't feel like home anymore.

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u/mordiksplz Sep 29 '22

I swear some conservative "old white men" used to be good people before fox brainwashed them into thinking that people who look like me are trying to ruin their lives and America and shit

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u/Therefrigerator Sep 29 '22

It used to be that Ohio was the barometer of the nation when it came to presidential elections. There were only a handful of cases where the state didn't vote for the would-be president. More and more it's looking like it's just a solid red state.

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u/induslol Sep 29 '22 edited Sep 29 '22

Trump rally complete with sieg heils, check. Trumpists turning highways into parking lots, check. Anti-Abortion laws killing women, check. Teachers allowed and encouraged to bring guns into schools after 24 hours of 'training', check.

And on, it really has gotten a lot worse since my youth. There was always a conservative bend but it wasn't always this bad

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u/following_eyes Sep 29 '22

Yea I sorta remember Ohio some years ago trying to mimic California and then an abrupt turn Red. Crazy.

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u/SenorSplashdamage Sep 29 '22

It got very gerrymandered. They redistricted to stretch city districts in places with large Black populations far out into the rural districts to water down the Black votes. Look at Jim Jordan’s district for the most extreme example.

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u/MakesMyHeadHurt Sep 29 '22

Depends on the area I guess. I grew up in Springfield and we used to call it Upper Kentucky. There were confederate flags everywhere.

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u/Deaden Sep 29 '22

Funny thing is, Kentucky wasn't apart of the Confederacy, either, and actively fought off their annexation attempts.

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u/DingusHanglebort Sep 29 '22

Michigan's going down the same shitslide...

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u/Devadander Sep 29 '22

That’s the middle finger of the south

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u/rikkirikkiparmparm Sep 28 '22

Did you open the article? The first line says that thirty three states have that law

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u/_Fun_Employed_ Sep 28 '22

I believe the intent was to protect the rite of confession, however without being properly worded, then it becomes a huge loophole.

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u/Wendidigo Sep 28 '22

I expect this type of shit here in Texas but thought y'all were a bit more...dunno protective.

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u/Sir_Penguin21 Sep 29 '22

In the last 10-15 year Ohio has really gone down hill. It isn’t what it was, and it wasn’t much to begin with.

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u/Bachooga Sep 29 '22

Left Cincinnati into Ohio for the first time in years recently. Cincinnati should just be a city state, I fuckin swear. KY sucks, Indiana sucks, and then you get outta the greater Cincinnati area into Ohio and guess fuckin what.

It sucks.

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u/mad_cart Sep 29 '22

KY has two pockets of Blue. Lexington (where I live) and Louisville. The rest is a sea of Red, hence Mitch McConnell 🤢🤮

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u/WarlockEngineer Sep 29 '22

Idaho is the real South of the North

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u/SheilaLabeouf Sep 28 '22

I am an ordained clergy person in pa. My denomination requires me to report any abuse. It doesn’t matter what the state law is. If I want to maintain my ordination then I am mandated to report. This is denomination wide.

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u/nicolenotnikki Sep 28 '22

Chaplain in WA here. Clergy are not mandated reporters here for some reason. I will always report abuse when I hear about it, no matter what the law says. If you’re clergy and you don’t report, wtf are you doing?!

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u/SaltineFiend Sep 28 '22

Being a rapist

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u/LA_Commuter Sep 29 '22

Hey, don't forget controlling women!

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u/chiliedogg Sep 29 '22

I am former clergy. Same story - mandatory reporting always. If you suspect something, you report it. If you hear something suspicious that you think someone is making up to be mean or as a joke... report it.

If someone says something that makes you suspect abuse, but they do so in private counseling with the expectation of pastoral privilege?

YOU REPORT IT!

Privilege has its limits, and abuse is one of them. Others include risk of imminent harm.

What it does cover is confessions of non-abuse stuff. I've known several clergy who had people confess murder to them, and I knew one who ended up retiring from guilt after having to keep secret the identity of the person who caused an accident at the church playground that left a child quadriplegic for life. That one went to court when the family sued...

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u/PMinisterOfMalaysia Sep 29 '22

Is there a policy for suicidal ideation? While enlisted in the AF but prior to my suicide attempt, I would often forgoe a trip to the mental health clinic in favour of the chaplain as they weren't required to report me.

I remain very much a supporter of this policy despite them not being able to prevent me from trying. Just being able to vent without being thrown into a hospital is such a fucking nice to have.

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u/I_am_Nobody_Special Sep 29 '22

Psychologist here. We aren't required to report suicidal ideation. We're only required to take steps to protect you if you're at imminent risk of following through with a suicide attempt.

I seriously hope military shrinks don't have some lower bar for breaking your confidentiality!

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u/_My_Angry_Account_ Sep 29 '22

I seriously hope military shrinks don't have some lower bar for breaking your confidentiality!

They don't need to. Visiting a shrink in the military makes you look weak and down upon. This is why they push people to the chaplins because it isn't documented like actual medical help.

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u/avdpos Sep 29 '22

Here in Sweden pastors of church of Sweden ain't allowed by law and church policy to tell what they get knowledge of during confession. It is both a pride to keep the silence and one of the hardest parts.

Deacons and pastors/priests from other churches should report child abuse and something more and do not have total silence.

I think those laws work rather well here in Sweden for the same reasons as you say. Only problem is that they seem to be a choice in USA and not a "you are legally not allowed"

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u/Ell15 Sep 28 '22

I am grateful for this, and hope you never have to encounter a situation in which it will be necessary.

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u/elephant-cuddle Sep 29 '22

But. You know, you wouldn’t be breaking the law. Will you go to prison if know about someone being abused and do nothing?

Because that’s what happens to other people in positions of authority over others.

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u/Tiny_Dinky_Daffy_69 Sep 29 '22

Not good enough, it should be law.

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u/FuckTamlin Sep 29 '22

Yeah, it's cool and all that your community would remove you if you failed to act but that's not a substitute for legal action managing cases of child abuse. Child abuse is not a "let the community handle it" kind of issue.

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u/theZoid42 Sep 29 '22

Mandated to report to to the church or the police?

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u/Quinn_tEskimo Sep 28 '22

Next: Jim Jordan to get ordained.

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u/JBaecker Sep 28 '22

Do you mean Gym Jordan? I’m pretty sure he likes the gym so he’s named Gym. Also the numerous rapees he let get raped in gyms.

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u/Intrepid-Progress228 Sep 28 '22 edited Sep 28 '22 Silver Wholesome

This article needs to be the default response to every religious social media post that rants about LGBTQ+ "groomers".

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u/DirtStarWars Sep 28 '22

You can tell who read the article and who didn’t by how hard they go in on Ohio, but not the other 32 states in a similar situation.

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u/rikkirikkiparmparm Sep 28 '22

You don’t even have to read the whole thing it’s the very first sentence!

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u/SenorSplashdamage Sep 28 '22

Ohio’s among the ten largest states. Until recent decades, it was more reliable for getting things more right than other states. Those two things together make it worth looking even more critically at what that means about bigger trends or where leadership in major states is at.

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u/Jack-Campin Sep 28 '22

Some of us just couldn't read it because it's not available where we are.

So we just have to assume the bit about Ohio offering state funds to any church that wants to build an extension with bondage dungeons.

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u/SaltyScrotumSauce Sep 28 '22

And some of us can't read anything because we were educated by the Ohio school system.

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u/flentaldoss Sep 29 '22

It's not a good title for the article, but I get it, since it's from an Ohio-based source, so they are catering to their regular audience.

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u/Zantron7 Sep 28 '22 Silver

There is staff at my Uni who also do not have to report sexual harassment, and they're there as an option for victims to speak to in case they want to keep what happened private. That's because all other staff have an obligation to report. Having people who are not obligated to report can help victims.

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u/rikkirikkiparmparm Sep 28 '22

Yeah I remember staff at my college being very explicit about whether or not they were required to report any potential crime they were told about. I think the professors even put it in the syllabus.

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u/goodcleanchristianfu Sep 28 '22

Highest ranked sane comment. Rape victims have been jailed for contempt of court because they decided to open up to the wrong person and then refused to testify. Some people open up to friends, some to therapists, some to clergy. Mandating someone report all accusations of misconduct, sexual or otherwise, will result in them being unable to open up to anyone if they're not ready to or interested in participating in prosecutions. We can disagree on whether or not this is a good law, but I don't think many of the people suggesting this is unambiguously wrong are actually familiar with the criminal justice system.

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u/PMinisterOfMalaysia Sep 29 '22

I'm glad this comment chain exists. It's not just sexual assault victims, either. Having closed discussion in which you're able to openly discuss your leanings toward committing suicide without being hospitalized or actively monitored can be a saving grace. It may not always prevent individuals from trying, but it does offer them an opportunity to vent in a manner in which they feel generally more comfortable and less judged.

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u/talonh Sep 29 '22

In other news Rep. Jim Jordan just got ordained.

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u/Resident_Text4631 Sep 29 '22

Gym Jordan Exemption?

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u/Turlap Sep 29 '22

Isn't anyone gonna talk about the separation of church and state?

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u/dastrn Sep 29 '22

Christianity has become the biggest poison in the world.

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u/get-bread-not-head Sep 29 '22

So the gays groom people by existing but the church totally doesn't groom people by clears throat:

Indoctrinating infants into baptisms

Condemning anyone that doesn't follow your faith

Tax exempt

History of child abuse

Even with history of child abuse, don't have to report child abuse

Lack of accountability in politics

Seems fair. Definitely the gays making things worse.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '22

So raped children can’t get abortions and clergy don’t have to report abuse. Ohio going for the pedophile paradise award,

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u/Shaggy2772 Sep 28 '22

Ohio - making abortion illegal but rape and molestation easier to get away with.

Lead with that as your new State motto.

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u/FlamingTrollz Sep 29 '22

If you’re supposed to be the MORAL AUTHORITY…

Take your communities MONEY…

Not pay any TAXES…

Be worth BILLIONS AND BILLIONS…

Ya best be on your the BEST BEHAVIOR…

Our we’ve got a MAJOR PROBLEM.

Diseased DEGENERATES. 🤬

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u/DenikaMae Sep 29 '22

Mandatory reporting should be mandatory for everyone churches shouldn't be excluded from that.

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u/MeanGreanHare Sep 28 '22

I understand that in denominations that have confessional sessions, it's supposed to be between the them and God. If someone confesses to a heinous crime, the clergy will try to encourage the person to face the legal consequences.

Lawyers have a similar privilege, called attorney-client privilege, but it can be even worse, because the attorney will try to help someone avoid the consequences.

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u/Pjpjpjpjpj Sep 29 '22

As far as "confessing to a heinous crime," remember that sometimes the person confessing the crime is the victim.

When a 9 year old girl tells the priest that they have been sexually abused by their father for 5 years, and is confessing that they feel hatred toward their father, the priest can only consult the child, even if the child is wholly unable to take any action to help themselves because they fear brutal retaliation and are under the influence of 5 years of parental grooming. The priest can't talk to the parent, the spouse, or law enforcement, or engage a psychiatrist because - that confession was between them and God. It would literally violate the rules of some religions (eg. "Seal of the Confession") to reveal that information to anyone.

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u/Tommyblockhead20 Sep 29 '22

Ya, for what it's worth, I'm not sure if closing this "loophole" will have much of an effect. If people know confessing will get them mandatory reported to the authorities, they just aren't going to confess!

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u/ardatwork Sep 28 '22

I knew I was better off giving 10% of my income to my attorney.

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u/Mrrandom314159 Sep 29 '22

Clergy take a sacred vow to honor the confessional, even in the case of murder.

Though, if I remember correctly, they're allowed to break it if they believe the person will commit more harm.

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u/untouchable_0 Sep 28 '22

Isnt this where Jim Jordan is from?

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u/PMUrAnus Sep 29 '22

State of Gym Jordan. Is anyone surprised?

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u/Straight-Swimmer6680 Sep 29 '22

Uhhhhhhhh what????

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u/MesquiteAutomotive Sep 29 '22

Where's the "protect the children" crowd? Complaining about kids wearing masks still?

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u/EwesDead Sep 29 '22

Ohio seems to be the state for child rape and protecting clergy who have a history of...if.... you guessed it child rape.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '22

Ohio wants to be the shithole of the continent I guess.

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u/Sup-poopybutt Sep 29 '22

So no abortions for children who are impregnated by rapist and now the clergy doesn’t need to report possible aforementioned crime.

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u/Justandy85 Sep 29 '22

Ohio make abortion illegal, then exempts clergy from reporting abuse.

See you guys in 20 years when it's leaked thousands of clergy raped and impregnated children whom couldn't get abortions.

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u/Choice-Studio-9489 Sep 29 '22

Well yes of course they don’t have to report it, because they used to use the seal of confession to abuse us. I’ll never spend time alone near any clergy, because if anyone said anything, I wouldn’t be able to control the rage, from what they did to me, and a few others. Tried to report when we were younger, and it was a few teenagers vs a catholic monastery. We never even got to court, and now the one priest, still tries to message us a decade later to “hang out”.

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u/ModsDontHaveJobs Sep 29 '22

Same state that just had two adolescent girls denied abortions in the last week. Makes you wonder if the two are related (they are).