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Trump under investigation for potential violations of Espionage Act, warrant reveals

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/12/fbi-agents-trump-search-mar-a-lago-documents?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
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u/Zagmit Aug 12 '22 Helpful Wholesome

USA Today posted both the search warrant and the receipt in this article:

Read the FBI's search warrant for Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago property

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u/elginx Aug 12 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

"Miscellaneous Top Secret Documents"

🤯

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u/NewPepper1580 Aug 13 '22 Silver Gold Helpful

Charcuterie of treason.

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u/mess_of_limbs Aug 13 '22

A melange of misdeeds

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u/DaddyFigured Aug 13 '22

Smorgasbord of sedition

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u/SalzaMaBalza Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 12 '22

That's a lot of boxes

Edit: If he really is a Russian asset, the Macron documents makes a lot of sense

Edit 2: Imagine this being Putin's endgame - To get his "asset" to stir things up with the "yankees", then do what he wants in eastern Europe

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u/heart_under_blade Aug 12 '22

on top of the 15 boxes recovered previously

i think someone claimed they were just news paper clippings which is hilarious. 1 box can probably hold at least 3 weeks worth of entire daily newspapers, forget clippings.

anyhow, there's no way you can say that's an honest mistake. you can't mistakenly take that much shit with you

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u/homefree89 Aug 13 '22

Not just that but when the FBI or DOJ serve you a subpoena demanding you return anything like that it better be your job to be damn sure you're not holding it.

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u/heart_under_blade Aug 13 '22

when we first learned of fbi presence in mar a lago, i wondered what the fuck he was doing with this shit for pretty much two whole years. he clearly had to know he had it, because they were telling him he had it, right? if you are law abiding, you return it. if you are a scoff law, you'd destroy it. my man really sat around with them waiting to find out if the fbi would come and take it. i need to know

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u/HolyGig Aug 13 '22

It was VERY illegal for him to remove this information from the white house in the first place. Even then he literally had years to return it after repeated warnings and nothing at all would have happened to him. We never would have heard a word about any of this if he had just returned them

What I want to know is why he wanted to hold on to these documents so badly he was willing to risk a raid like this. There is utterly zero reason for any president to have 15 BOXES full of nuclear secrets

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '22

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u/Zagmit Aug 12 '22

I moved apartments recently, and I think I had fewer boxes.

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u/SmokeysDrunkAlt Aug 12 '22 Silver All-Seeing Upvote

My apartment would probably require more boxes, but at least they would contain significantly less treason.

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u/makemisteaks Aug 12 '22

You all might remember that in the French election, back in 2017, the emails of Macron’s campaign (over 20k of them) were leaked two days before Election Day in a clear attempt to sway the election in favor of Marine Le Pen, a notorious extreme right winger.

How quickly their contents spread via bots, spammers and conservative channels (Wikileaks included) has long made it clear that the whole think reeked of opportunism. Especially considering that the emails were released before a mandatory media blackout required by French electoral law which made regular news channels being unable to talk about the event.

Putin’s regime has always been suspected of being the mastermind behind it.

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u/99available Aug 13 '22

We let the French extradite Trump for their election tampering and they do all the dirty work.😍

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u/170iriderinsf Aug 12 '22

Looking forward to seeing the Trump Presidential Library at Rykers Island

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u/jodiejewel Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 12 '22

NYT says that DOJ also has subpoenaed surveillance footage of the storage area at Mar-a-Lago to see who’s been able to access the documents that were stashed there. That’s pretty juicy.

Edited:typo

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u/karibear909 Aug 12 '22

"Trump has offered no details about how the supposed declassification took place, and a former Trump administration aide, Kash Patel, has said that even though Trump did declassify the records, the White House counsel’s office never provided the required paperwork."

Cue Michael Scott's "I declare Bankruptcy" scene from The Office.

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u/bucketofmonkeys Aug 12 '22

The Trump supporters will say that anything Trump took is by definition declassified.

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u/Sparticuse Aug 13 '22 edited Aug 13 '22

He could theoretically make that kind of argument for normal classified documents. The kind they said they found in the receipt are way beyond top secret and have special rules for declassification

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u/PM_ME_BOYSHORTS Aug 13 '22

And none of it even matters. The Espionage Act just says documents related to the defense of the country, etc. Doesn't differentiate with classifications.

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u/dougxiii Aug 13 '22

That's the best news of all. Declassified or not, none of that matters with the 3 potential charges.

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u/itsnotthenetwork Aug 12 '22 Silver Gold Helpful Giggle

In case anyone is wondering about the "BUT OBAMA bla bla bla bla" argument Trump is throwing around.

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-obama-allowed-take-white-house-records-but-not-trump-2022-8

"Tens of thousands of Obama's documents were transported to Chicago. But these items were shipped to a federal government facility — which is what's supposed to happen with a president's records. Federal law requires that presidents and their administrations keep a detailed collection of emails, documents, and even gifts from their time in office since all of those things are actually the property of the American people.

In Obama's case, the National Archives took legal ownership of Obama's documents and then began the long process of sorting through the material before the public could request it years later. Some of this material was then turned over to Obama's presidential library, which is the standard legal process."

Trump.... basically just took them home. Presidential documents are to be stored at a National Archives facility, not in the Trump poolhouse.

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u/cl33t Aug 12 '22

Some of this material was then turned over to Obama's presidential library

Turned over makes it sound like it left the National Archive's control.

The Obama Presidential Library is literally run by the National Archives.

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u/crashcanuck Aug 12 '22

Yeah, could use better wording, but it's more like turned over to a different department within the same organization.

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u/user206 Aug 12 '22

I always wondered why presidents have their own library. Now I know why. Thank you!

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u/Saneless Aug 13 '22

I thought it was just to avoid fines and wait lists. I was way off!

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u/officerfett Aug 12 '22

I wonder if folks that find themselves under criminal investigation for violations of the Espionage Act, usually end up have their passports suspended until the investigation is over?

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u/djarvis77 Aug 12 '22

That moment when your Secret Service detail becomes your Secret Service jailors.

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u/zevonyumaxray Aug 12 '22

After the Secret Service wiped the phone records of Jan 6, the agents assigned to the Don and his "family" are going to have to be very carefully chosen, because who knows how some of them treat their assignments. Are they acting like a security service, or do they think they are a Praetorian Guard.

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u/officerfett Aug 12 '22

That's like a non-lethal version of executing Order 66.

Mission: To protect Mr Trump...

Mission: To arrest Mr Trump...

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u/YNot1989 Aug 12 '22

Trump isn't denying it, he's claiming it shouldn't be a big deal because Obama received 33 million pages of documents after leaving the Whte House... which the National Archives immediately countered with legal clarification about how those materials were given by the national archives to his Presidential Library.

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u/cl33t Aug 12 '22

Not given to Obama. The National Archives owns and operates the Presidential libraries.

Obama's Presidential records have been in the physical custody of the National Archives since the day he left office.

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u/Obandigo Aug 12 '22

All that will be in the Trump Presidential Library is a copy of Grumpy Monkey.

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u/jjayzx Aug 13 '22

And his sharpie'd edits and that crayon drawing.

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u/soda_cookie Aug 12 '22

Actually it appears he's now claiming that he declassified everything already. How about that. This guy has got spin for days

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u/ButterPotatoHead Aug 12 '22

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u/drkgodess Aug 12 '22

I will keep this in mind whenever anyone tries to bring up that unclassified talking point.

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u/kizzle69 Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 12 '22

Be sure to also bring up that the President cannot and has never been capable of declassify top secret nuclear documents. There's no argument at all to be made.

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u/eDave Aug 12 '22

Be sure to also bring up that the President cannot and has never been capable of declassify nuclear documents.

They are being told. They don't care and are calling that fake without taking any time to fact check it.

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u/[deleted] Aug 12 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/JustAnotherMiqote Aug 12 '22

That place is a cesspool. On the recent topic of California giving free food to all schoolkids, a few people are arguing that feeding children is a waste of taxpayer money. Really helps one understand the radical conservative mindset.

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u/CursedHuskerFan Aug 12 '22

But those kids need to live, that's why they just overturned roe. Oh wait they don't care. Only if they're in a woman's uterus

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u/ratedpg_fw Aug 12 '22

He also didn't declassify them and is lying about that.

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u/taybay462 Aug 12 '22

you can also bring up

The 1988 Supreme Court case Navy v. Egan confirmed that classification authority flows from the president except in specific instances separated from his powers by law. 

... Trump’s power to declassify ended with his presidency. Second, that U-Haul could be reclassified by someone else. (Depending on traffic and the sharpness of the Biden administration, I would imagine it could have been reclassified somewhere around Fredericksburg, Virginia.) And third, there are certain materials that presidents cannot classify and declassify at will. One such category of material is the identity of spies.

Another is nuclear secrets. The Atomic Energy Acts of 1946 and 1954 produced an even stranger category of classified knowledge. Anything related to the production or use of nuclear weapons and nuclear power is inherently classified, and Trump could utter whatever words he pleased yet still be in possession of classified material

sorry for the wonky copy-pasting, the article didnt state the point concisely so i grabbed from different parts of the article https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/trump-fbi-raid-classified-nuclear-documents/671119/

point being, this is one of the few types of documents that there is NO WAY for Trump to legally possess them after his presidency. hes fucked, and god have I waited a long time to say that (and it be true). get FUCKED mango mussolini

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u/lonestar-rasbryjamco Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 12 '22

There also is the legal theory he doesn't have the right to declassify documents classified by statute. Like nuclear secrets as per the the Atomic Energy Acts of 1946 and 1954

I say "theory" because it will need to be tested in court. Anyone claiming to fully understand the classification system, especially around nuclear secrets and the President, who isn't a JAG officer specializing in this byzantine system is delusional. It's not as simple as loudly shouting "I declare bankruptcy!".

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u/GNOIZ1C Aug 12 '22

A sane-ish person would go from "So what if I had the documents? I declassified them!" to shutting the fuck up really quick upon realizing they just incriminated themselves.

But hooo this moron. Can't wait to see how he doubles-down this time.

Tweet (..."Truth"?) your way to jail, dude. Just keep your dumb mouth running.

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u/ahritina Aug 12 '22

NONE of the 3 crimes cited in the warrant turn on whether the information is classified.

So that whole point is regardless, Trump is literally just an idiot regardless.

Also you can't declassify Nuclear secrets so his defence is irrelevant if he even tries to argue his point.

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u/jar45 Aug 12 '22

Seriously how many crimes is this motherfucker under investigation for?

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u/kaishenlong Aug 12 '22

Looks like at least three, just for this warrant. The most important part is just the Espionage Act part, which, if convicted, can carry the death penalty.

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u/[deleted] Aug 12 '22 Silver Gold Platinum Helpful Wholesome All-Seeing Upvote Take My Energy Bravo!

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u/D4ng3rd4n Aug 13 '22

fat, sweaty hog of a criminal dullard

Can we just please take a second to respect this poetry

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u/Salty_Lego Aug 12 '22 Helpful Wholesome

Honestly worse than what I expected.

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u/bionicbuttplug Aug 12 '22

I expected Jan 6 docs. Did not expect anything close to this.

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u/CosmicAstroBastard Aug 12 '22

In hindsight it makes a scary amount of sense. It had to be something massive for the FBI to risk doing this so close to midterms, and to a potential candidate for 2024. The optics could not be worse and they did it anyway. This is probably one of the very few things big enough to justify that kind of action.

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u/Beautiful-Musk-Ox Aug 12 '22

They reopened and investigation into Hillary 12 days before a presidential election, doing this to Trump months before midterms that he's not technical a part of is nothing. Her poll number plummeted when Comey released the statement, he very likely caused Trump to win all thanks to Chaffetz.

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u/Cyrano_Nose Aug 13 '22

They reopened an investigation into Hillary 12 days before a presidential election and then made a PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT to the effect she was under investigation again.

Meanwhile they had at least one if not two or more investigations into Trump underway and said not a thing about them.

But the FBI is out to get Trump!

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u/dariusj18 Aug 13 '22

the FBI is out to get Trump!

I hope so, because the FBI should be out to get criminals.

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u/ButterPotatoHead Aug 12 '22 Gold

The thing is that this is very deliberate. It isn't like you accidentally put 12 boxes of files in your briefcase as you walk out of the office.

I could see him doing it as just a big fuck you to the government and everyone in it. Just like calling the white house a "dump". Then once he did it, of course he couldn't back down.

But my secret desire is that he stole the documents to repay the Russians for helping him win in the first place. Let's not forget all of the connections to Russian money that were established, both during his presidency and long before. This would be true espionage.

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u/peoplegrower Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 13 '22 Silver Starry Take My Power

This wasn’t just “grab a box on the way out”. I’m reading that some of the documents they found were so high security that you could only read them in a specific room/area with layers of security to make sure they stayed there. There is literally no way you “accidentally” take them, and it seems likely there had to be a well thought out, deliberate plan involving more than just Trump to actually remove them from the building.

EDITING TO ADD: Because I see people asking for my source a lot...the document listing what they seized from MAL lists various SCI documents as something seized. See posters below for a good explaination of what SCI/SCIF are.

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u/EmmalouEsq Aug 12 '22

Highly classified information is supposed to stay in a contained secure room, a SCIF. There were layers upon layers of failure here.

Wasn't there a bit of an issue a couple of years ago with Republicans taking phones into SCIFs?

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u/Butterkupp Aug 12 '22

Can you explain what SCI or SCIF means? I keep seeing people use it but I have no idea what it stands for.

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u/HelenHerriot Aug 12 '22 Wholesome

SCI is a clearance level: Top Secret, Sensitive Compartmented Information. It’s a special type of clearance that is not easy to get. (Source: I used to do background investigations for OPM)

A SCIF is typically a room in a facility where phones, and other such devices are not allowed, and the documents do not just come and go freely.

An additional question is: who gave him these documents? He’s not smart enough to gather all this shit on his own.

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u/PlayShtupidGames Aug 12 '22

My money is on Flynn

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u/SL3D Aug 13 '22

What about Scott Perry since his phone was seized?

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u/itsyaboyObama Aug 13 '22

In my time dealing with SCI, there is a chain of custody that must indicate who was responsible for the documents during their disappearance. Shouldn’t be too hard to figure out who helped him.

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u/TheMasterFul1 Aug 12 '22 Silver

SCI stands for Sensitive Compartmented Information and SCIF stands for Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility.

Basically, Sensitive Compartmented Information means "above top secret". SCI is its own system of controls alongside how classified the information itself to ensure it's compartmentalized.

In other words, very loosely speaking, it means you should be at least in a senior in position to be read in to the information, and SCI means you need at least this good a reason to know it on top of that. It's essentially the need to know side of this secret keeping procedure, and no amount of being the president once clears a civilian for stashing it. These SCI are supposed to remain ONLY in a SCIF and are pretty much never supposed to see the light of day. This is a major major security breach.

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u/RandomUserName24680 Aug 13 '22 edited Aug 13 '22

As far as I am aware, the only SCIF in the White House is the Situation Room. The documents marked TS/SCI could only be viewed in the situation room if being viewed at the WH, and yet originally that document was stored in an unlocked basement room at Mar A Lago. Yes, eventually a master lock padlock was put on the door, but that’s not much better than no lock.

If Obama had done thus, every republican, including Trump would be calling for his immediate arrest.

Edit: As aphasia been pointed out, there are other SCIFs in the WH besides the SITROOM, but the point still remains. An originally not locked door in a hotel, is NOT a scif, and if Obama, or Clinton did this the right would lose their effing minds.

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u/Mobile-Entertainer60 Aug 12 '22

He'd already returned 15 boxes. That means 27 boxes full of files that weren't supposed to be on paper in the first place.

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u/faste30 Aug 12 '22

And they took more in JUNE too.

This is the 3rd attempt to get everything back. So lord knows who much is left. If they still dont have everything they will probably have to go to his other properties.

He was just in NJ hosting the Saudis so he possibly took stuff there to sell to them.

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u/Khaldara Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 12 '22

“He just gonna make ‘Murica great again by selling state secrets to foreign nations!”

  • The dumbest motherfuckers alive

Wild that the dude is a more egregious criminal than Nixon and they STILL are busily tonguing his butthole with enough enthusiasm to tickle the back of his tonsils

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u/FireBeyond Aug 12 '22

I love how he called the White House a dump. Then used millions of (our, of course) dollars to upgrade Mar-a-Lago to be "Presidential".

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u/Tributemest Aug 12 '22

And then went on to use the White House for a campaign rally...

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u/lost_horizons Aug 12 '22

Wow, forgot about that one. How quaint, such scandals now seem.

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u/unclejarjarbinks Aug 12 '22

Each day, it gets more spicy.

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u/JustShibzThings Aug 12 '22

Seriously since Monday, every evening PST time, a new bomb drops.

Been a fun week

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u/CaptainNoBoat Aug 12 '22

With the GA investigation and Jan. 6 investigation, I was expecting obstruction of an official proceeding, conspiracy to defraud the U.S., maybe even sedition - but not until 2023 or even later (if ever).

The stolen documents story had almost completely left the news cycle.

And then bam - MF'ing search warrants for espionage act violations regarding nuclear secrets out of absolutely nowhere.

What an insane week.

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u/jooes Aug 12 '22

Imagine having "Tried to overthrow the government" end up being the least offensive or shocking news story about you this week.

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u/gentlyredundant Aug 12 '22

I was expecting call logs, financial info, or maybe something regarding foreign relations.

But nukes???

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u/cowboys5xsbs Aug 12 '22 Gold Take My Energy Bravo Grande!

He was preparing for hurricane season

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u/crono220 Aug 12 '22

If he's found guilty and still walks away a free man, it will show how useless our country's law is.

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u/DerelictDonkeyEngine Aug 12 '22

Well he first has to be charged for anything else to happen.

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u/Papa-pwn Aug 12 '22 Silver

A former US President. Espionage. What a time to be alive.

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u/BeneficialLeave7359 Aug 12 '22 Gold Eureka!

I’ll repeat what I posted in one of yesterday’s stories on this subject. I have to go through refresher training every year since I hold a security clearance. Every year during the Trump admin all I could think of while going through the scenarios presented in the training is “Trump ticks every box on the potential threat checklist.”

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u/HipToss79 Aug 12 '22

I also worked for a DOD contractor. Can't believe we had to try to function working under that idiot.

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u/BJntheRV Aug 12 '22

Can't believe how many people working for DoD contractors are on the Trump train. I'm in an area that is wall to wall gov contractors - I swear people show up normal and somehow get converted to the right wing cult here, just by proximity

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u/mosaic_hops Aug 12 '22 Take My Energy

Trump was absolutely ineligible for a clearance. His massive debt, repeated bankruptcies, debt owed to foreign interests, etc. would have disqualified anyone - except for a president, who has go be granted a clearance regardless. People have gone to prison for the rest of their lives for far less than Trump has done to sell us all out. Crazy.

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u/BeneficialLeave7359 Aug 12 '22

They had to tell the all the 3 letter agencies to give Jared clearance because they knew he was a risk.

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u/bonyponyride Aug 12 '22

This would even be too unbelievable as a Homeland plot line.

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u/Lucas_Steinwalker Aug 12 '22

The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction needs to be credible.

- Mark Twain

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u/Osama_Obama Aug 12 '22 Silver Wholesome Heartwarming

I want to get off Mr. Bones wild ride

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u/Absolutely_N0t Aug 12 '22

The ride never ends! The ride never ends!

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u/RonaldoNazario Aug 12 '22

2022 looks too intense for me.

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u/sonic10158 Aug 12 '22

It just hurts to know his followers will still literally die for him no matter what he does.

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u/GandalfSwagOff Aug 12 '22 Silver Wholesome

Has anyone told conservatives that they can still be conservatives without Trump? Like, him committing crimes has nothing to do with them wanting lower income taxes.

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u/Pleasant_Bit_0 Aug 13 '22

Lol. For real, they've strayed so far. The conservatives who vote for him after this only want to "win" the culture war.

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u/MawsonAntarctica Aug 12 '22

Someone in another thread put it and the nuclear talks: This dude sold out the entire country by potentially trading top secrets to bail out his investment debts.

When put that way, it seems regrettably believable because that's something he would do.

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u/drkgodess Aug 12 '22

He's also actively trying to get FBI agents killed by releasing the names of the agents involved in the raid to Breitbart.

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u/hotstepperog Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 13 '22

He’s the worst kind of worm; Loads the bullets and tries to get others to shoot.

Tried to have some kids killed in the 80s by taking out newspaper Ads. [Google - Central Park 5 Trump Ad].

Tried to get Mike Pence killed, and some Democrats.

Now trying to get FBI Agents killed.

Unfortunately due to the US Populace allowing him to get in office he has actually been able to get people killed and made to suffer, without actually having to get his own hands dirty. Scum.

EDIT: “The kids” are the Central Park 5. Google Trump newspaper Ad Central Park 5.

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u/psychopythonmetrist Aug 12 '22

Didn’t one of his followers attack the FBI like a day ago?

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u/k3rn3 Aug 12 '22

Yes, which was also the day after Crowder said "tomorrow is war"

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u/trubleluvsme Aug 12 '22

That's why people with bad credit aren't allowed to have a clearance

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u/jamesfluker Aug 12 '22

[chanting] Lock him up, lock him up.

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u/spaitken Aug 13 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

You mean to tell me the guy who tried to overturn the election both by propaganda and force MAY have betrayed the country?

How utterly unsurprising.

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u/hoosakiwi Aug 12 '22 Silver Platinum

Looks like Breitbart and other conservative outlets got the warrant first, and from the sounds of things, it's Trump who gave it to them.

Trump apparently leaked the warrant to Breitbart. The DOJ had sought to redact or shield the names of agents involved. Trump took no caution. The Breitbart article has names of agents, which obviously puts a target on their back. Reprehensible. Trump needs to be stopped. Enough.

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u/drkgodess Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 12 '22 Silver Platinum

Wow, talk about stochastic terrorism. First CPAC with their marquees saying "we are all domestic terrorists." Now Trump releasing the names of FBI agents after spending days maligning the FBI.

Something has to be done about the right wing blogosphere. I don't know what exactly, but they are dangerous - truly, actually, dangerous.

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u/The_Wrong_Band Aug 12 '22

First CPAC with their marquees saying "we are all domestic terrorists."

I genuinely thought that was a joke Photoshop.

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u/Burgoonius Aug 12 '22

ME TOO holy shit thats fucked up

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u/el-gato-volador Aug 12 '22

Imagine seeing into a crystal ball on 9/12/2001 and that's what you see.

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u/Docthrowaway2020 Aug 12 '22

But they stopped eating French fries! They’re the REAL patriots!

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u/SmileLikeAphexTwin Aug 12 '22

Freedom fries...even as a 6th grader at the time, I remember thinking, "Oh wow, parts of America are actually really stupid."

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u/[deleted] Aug 12 '22

Wait that was real?

What the FUCK?

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u/earthwormjim91 Aug 12 '22

Their explanation is that it was tongue in cheek about Democrats calling every republican a domestic terrorist.

But really it just comes across as them saying they are in fact domestic terrorists.

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u/hyouko Aug 12 '22

To quote Maya Angelou, "when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

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u/id7e Aug 12 '22

They are priming their audience to become terrorists by telling them that they already are.

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u/resistible Aug 12 '22

Also generating acceptance of domestic terrorism committed by others.

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u/gdoveri Aug 12 '22

Especially a day after a lunatic MAGA fucker tried shooting up and FBI office. P

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u/boot2skull Aug 12 '22

They know what they’re doing.

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u/stolenfires Aug 12 '22

It's even dumber than that. He used a nail gun because he saw a YouTube video of a guy shooting nails through bullet proof glass. And he thought a nail gun would let him get past the bullet proof glass at the FBI office.

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u/philawsophist Aug 12 '22

trump's lawyers went on foxnews for 3 days saying they never had the warrants. blatantly lying to the public just for immediate damage control

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u/flange5 Aug 12 '22

All I can think of is 'trickle-truthing,' just in a different kind of abusive relationship. No there weren't any warrants, okay there were warrants, but they're just a 'political witchhunt,' oh there's nothing to be found there and if there was it was planted, oh there was and Trump admits it? Well he uhhh declassified it by magical powers and no paperwork. Oh, it doesn't work that way and especially not for nuclear secrets? WELL WHAT ABOUT HILLARY'S EMAILS AND ALSO WE'RE GOING TO INVESTIGATE *YOU* WHEN WE GET CONGRESS BACK.

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u/hangryhyax Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 13 '22 Gold

I’ve said a version of this on several different posts and I stand by it: the right-wing media and the legislators that come on their shows know exactly what they are doing, and they are intentionally putting people”s lives in danger. Enough is enough, this has gone well beyond any argument of 1A violations, and it needs to stop yesterday…

There is no question the Tucker Carlson’s and Marco Rubio’s of the world are acting with malice, and it’s already got one person killed.

Edit: fixed a typo

Edit 2: thanks for the gold, kind stranger. I’ve never had a post come anywhere close to this, so I truly appreciate the appreciation.

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u/Rawrsomesausage Aug 12 '22 Gold

Yeah, I'd like the FCC or whoever has control over that stuff to actually do something. Also using official Twitter accounts to throw their petty insults and outright lies should be banned. They're the government. If they're lying in an official capacity, and it's provable, it should be open to reprimand/prosecution.

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u/Amiiboid Aug 12 '22

Trump used his personal Twitter account to threaten a literal war crime and nobody did a thing.

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u/Velkyn01 Aug 12 '22

First CPAC with their marquees saying "we are all domestic terrorists."

I'm sorry, what?

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u/minitrr Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 12 '22 Silver Gold Helpful

Reminder: In 2019, whistleblowers informed the House Oversight Committee of Trump wanting to transfer nuclear intel to the Saudis:

https://oversight.house.gov/sites/democrats.oversight.house.gov/files/Trump%20Saudi%20Nuclear%20Report%20-%202-19-2019.pdf

Edit: thanks for the awards, and apologies to Reddit that I’ve been spamming this everywhere. But I think it’s an extremely important plot point that I wasn’t even aware of until my wife reminded me about it.

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u/Schmichael-22 Aug 12 '22

The paper’s conclusion includes this line, “Further investigation is needed to determine whether the actions being pursued by the Trump Administration are in the national security interest of the United States or, rather, serve those who stand to gain financially as a result of this potential change in U.S. foreign policy.”

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u/VegasKL Aug 12 '22

I wouldn't even have to Google this to have a good guess that Trump most likely attacked this whistleblower and said they were treasonous at some point.

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u/osumba2003 Aug 12 '22

This guy just can't stop committing crimes.

I think he does more illegal things in a day than he does legal.

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u/Balls_of_Adamanthium Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 12 '22 Silver

I’d like to take this moment to thank the Republican senate. Garland is getting more work done in a few months as the AG than he would’ve in decades in the Supreme Court.

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u/CaptainNoBoat Aug 12 '22 Silver

It's amazing how it went from a chorus of "Garland's doing nothing" narratives one week ago to the biggest legal story in American political history.

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u/SwifferWetJets Aug 12 '22 Take My Energy

I was one of the ones bitching about Garland seemingly sitting on his hands these past two years. I honestly thought he was just a "don't rock the boat" appointment by Biden, but I was wrong. Honestly, most of the reason it seems like he was doing nothing was just the byproduct of how the DOJ does business. They don't tip their hand and do extreme due diligence before they formally move, which is why they have such a high conviction rate - they generally only prosecute things they know they'll win.

But yeah, looks like I was wrong to doubt Garland's willingness to take the initiative to do something about Trump.

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u/aircooledJenkins Aug 12 '22 Silver

Garland ran the investigation into Timothy McVeigh for the Oklahoma city bombing.

Zero leaks happened in that investigation. No one knew a thing until Garland wanted it known.

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u/tstmkfls Aug 12 '22

He also led the prosecution team against the Unabomber. Dudes seen some shit for sure

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u/SandKeeper Aug 12 '22

Dude definitely seems like he runs a tight ship.

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u/KebNes Aug 12 '22

Moves in silence like lasagna

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u/newly_me Aug 12 '22

Also eating crow on thinking Garland was too afraid to rock the boat even with evidence of crimes. Happy to be wrong.

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u/MarsupialMadness Aug 12 '22

You're not the only one who was wrong, I was thinking he wasn't gonna do anything either.

I've never been so happy to be incorrect in my assumptions though.

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u/wayw4rd_ Aug 12 '22 Wholesome

I will admit I was one of those singers. And am so happy to be proven wrong as he hands me my makeup and little clown nose.

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u/Didact67 Aug 12 '22

I can smell the desperation from the Trump lovers in here.

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u/OptimusSublime Aug 12 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

It was just light treason.

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u/mangeld3 Aug 12 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

I've made a huge mistake

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u/allbright1111 Aug 12 '22

Ha! Oh wait, didn’t I hear that they searched some of Melania’s things as part of the warrant? That reminds me of another AD classic.

A husband and wife cannot be convicted of the same crime!

I don’t think that’s true.

(Head in hands) Ugh, I need to get a new fucking attorney.

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u/Ohmmy_G Aug 12 '22

You know, I can imagine the guy who plays George Bluth playing Rudy Giuliani in some semi-accurate mockumentary.

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u/floatablepie Aug 12 '22

He plays a fantastic empty suit Georgy Malenkov in Death of Stalin.

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u/ultragoat5 Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 13 '22

I cannot believe this mother fucker was able to rile people up enough to attempt an insurrection what in the actual fuck

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u/squeakycheetah Aug 12 '22

I'm tired of living through unprecedented times.

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u/UpintheWolfTrap Aug 12 '22

I just want to live in some precedented times.

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u/Matt-Mesa Aug 12 '22

As much as I’m cynical about any politicians getting in real trouble I can’t imagine the FBI/DoJ would have done this if they didn’t KNOW they can’t lose.

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u/High_Ground- Aug 12 '22

The name Trump will be synonymous with Treason some day. Benedict Arnold will be happy.

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u/SeeMe_After_Class Aug 12 '22 Silver Helpful All-Seeing Upvote Starry To The Stars

The most important aspect in all of this is the fact that Republicans continue to support him. Between the coup and the espionage, it's clear trump is an enemy of the US, and therefore support for trump is tantamount to treason. This point needs to be repeated via loudspeaker over and over again, and those who continue to support him should be held accountable.

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u/Wazula42 Aug 12 '22

CPAC put up that "We are all domestic terrorists" banner a few short days ago. They aren't even hiding it anymore.

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u/zhitsngigglez Aug 12 '22

Dude’s a flight risk. Lock him up!

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u/I_m_that1guy Aug 12 '22

The Espionage Act of 1917 prohibited obtaining information, recording pictures, or copying descriptions of any information relating to the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the information may be used for the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation.

So it seems they think he took those documents to either use as leverage to keep his fat out of the fryer or they have knowledge he intended to sell them to a foreign power. This is a complete guess on my part based on events and what the wording of the Espionage Act says.

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u/aeschenkarnos Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 13 '22

May in fact have sold them to a foreign power. The Saudis recently gave Kushner $2 billion and Mnuchin $1 billion. Culturally they are generous folk [EDIT: yes I am being sarcastic] but this would be unusually generous even for them, if they weren't getting something in return.

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u/Surfing_Ninjas Aug 12 '22

They're always getting something in return.

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u/yeags86 Aug 12 '22

This is damning.

Too bad his supporters won’t believe anything without information they aren’t allowed to see.

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u/Spiraled_Out462 Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 12 '22 Silver

Even if every single shred of proof--including full on top secret documents-were laid out on a party tray, cultists would STILL deny or say they were left over from Obama's term or antifa/blm did it.

Seriously. They could find him over a body with the DNA and forensics-tested bloody knife in his hand, and they'd still swear it's a left wing conspiracy.

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u/Matt-Mesa Aug 12 '22

This is painfully true and to add to this, to me the worst part is that the more it’s proven over and over the more detached they become. There is literally nothing that would convince them and every extra damning thing that is found is just more proof to them they’re right. It’s a horrible cycle.

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u/TheNathanNS Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 12 '22

Apparently they recovered files that have information on "The French President" so make of that what you will.

I wonder if French news outlets will report on it since Trump having documents on their leader lying around.... doesn't sound good.

Full report

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u/AngryMrBungle Aug 13 '22

Let’s be honest here. Trump thought he could do this because he was President. He thinks the President can do anything with no repercussions. We are talking about a guy who is quoted saying he admires Xi Jinping because he rules 1.5 billion people with an iron fist. He is jealous of the power dictators have over their people. He wants that power so bad. Trump would wage war on Americans to stay in power as evidenced by January 6th and what he wanted to happen and to try and get respect as evidenced by him having peaceful protesters forcefully removed from the street so he could have a photo op at a church he doesn’t even believe in. It’s so bizarre to me that the people who proclaim to be the biggest patriots can’t see that Trump was anything but American. We don’t have people fired or arrested if they don’t stand for the national anthem. We don’t cheer that an American citizen got 9 years in a Russian prison just because we don’t agree with their politics. We don’t try to force people to follow a religious doctrine through federal or state law. I just have no idea how these “patriots” can’t see they’re closer to nazis than Americans. It’s fucked up.

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u/KarmaCycle Aug 12 '22

“Trump lashed out at the justice department on Friday, saying in a statement that he had declassified all of the records in question. “It was all declassified,” Trump asserted.”

Ohhhhohoho. Did he just admit that the documents taken by the FBI are real? As in, he’s not being framed like his followers believe? Lol he dun fucked up.

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u/brocjames Aug 12 '22

They’re just blowing shit all over the walls and sees what sticks. I declassified the documents if you found them. Oh wait, those TS/SCI documents that can’t be declassified without a rigorous traceable process? The FBI planted those.

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u/hoosakiwi Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 12 '22

Donald Trump is under criminal investigation for potential violations of the Espionage Act and additional statutes relating to obstruction of justice and destroying federal government records, according to the search warrant executed by FBI agents at the former president’s home on Monday.

He's fucked.

Edit:

This tweet from Matt Viser at the Washington Post includes photos of the inventory listing what was taken from Mar-A-Lago.

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u/boforbojack Aug 12 '22

Usatoday has the warrant published. Funny to see the pardon in there, he definitely wanted it to hold it for pride purposes of the shit he was able to get away with.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/08/12/maralago-search-warrant-live-updates/10306459002/

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u/---Blix--- Aug 12 '22

How many investigations does one person have to be under before reprecussions are dealt?

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u/[deleted] Aug 12 '22

If this doesn't stick, it's the end of the republic.

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u/just_some_dude05 Aug 12 '22

Why didn’t they cuff him the moment they found it?

If he has info, it’s sold now.

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u/InevitableAvalanche Aug 12 '22

Trump is a traitor. It was always obvious, now just more glaringly so. You can't be a patriot and a Trump supporter. Either reject Trump or you are betraying your country.

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u/Enjolras55 Aug 12 '22

Trump supporters take great pride in being traitors.

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u/Evipicc Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 13 '22 Wholesome

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/12/1117151056/fbi-collected-multiple-sets-of-classified-documents-from-trumps-mar-a-lago-home (Unredacted search warrant)

TS/SCI has some incredible implications. Former army supply specialist here: At the company level there's some mundane 'ToP sEcReT" stuff for like... serial numbers of night vision goggles. Then there's Top Secret for operation information, troop movements, agent names, informant names and locations and associates... Top Secret can include defense contractor information like volume of sales, specific parts etc etc...

TS/SCI is... ONLY SCI eligible personnel are capable of even REQUESTING access to a document, and even then they must be part of the special compartment that deals with that specific information in the first place. SCI eligible personnel don't even broadcast or display the compartment to which they belong... even to their family (There's some exceptions like working as a machinist for the Alameda Lab) The Office of the Director of National Intelligence delegates this classification.

TS/SCI: Nuclear energy information (Edit: DOE stuff CAN be under SCI but is often under its' own classification and clearances, even with the DOE clearances you have to pass a TS level SSBI to get a Q (or RD) clearance). Nuclear control and location information (Edit: This is NOT CWNDI, that's design specs for nuclear assets). Military nuclear vehicle asset mission and location information, DARPA research project information (Edit: this is often also or in substitution under SAP or Special Access Program)... You get the gist of the scale of this hopefully.

This is some capital felony level shit.

Edit: There is a difference in nomenclature between Classification and Clearance. It can be pretty confusing, and it's not really relevant to all of this tbh. TS/SCI = some of the deepest secrets, really that's what it comes down to.

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u/DuckyFreeman Aug 13 '22

Man, I had an SCI for working with nukes, and even I never knew anything truly classified. The "need to know" bar is so fucking high. My clearance basically let me physically touch SCI material without ever knowing what the actual information was.

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u/lostpawn13 Aug 12 '22

How the fuck can people still defend this dude? It’s infuriating how much he’s compromised this country.

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u/Cricketcaser Aug 12 '22

Explain this one away, shitfuckers

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u/Tiabb Aug 12 '22

You underestimate Republicans. All they have to do is say "fake news" and "librul witch hunt" and all their voters will fall in line without question.

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u/Thor4269 Aug 12 '22

"Hunter's laptop and Hillary's emails"

That's been the response so far

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u/DanguhLange Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 12 '22

So is treason enough for the MAGA fuckers or no?

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u/Minstral_Meadows Aug 12 '22

Having looked at a certain subreddit there's tons of comments about false flags and FBI planting evidence. They can't admit jack shit.

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u/Bigedmond Aug 12 '22

He’s literally admitting it, how can they call that planted?

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u/debugman18 Aug 12 '22

Earlier he suggested the documents were planted. He's throwing a bunch of stuff at the walls and his followers will latch on to whichever narrative their beliefs lead them to.

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u/Diknak Aug 12 '22

No. This will only fuel them more. Because everyone knows committing espionage is what true patriots do.

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u/Bitter-Juggernaut681 Aug 12 '22

And he’s STILL NOT ARRESTED. That the boxes we’re THERE should be enough reason

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u/CttCJim Aug 13 '22

You don't need to arrest someone to build a case against them. He's not going anywhere, and the longer they wait the stronger the case. They want this shit so air tight you could live in it instead of the ISS before they move on him.

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u/Hermippe Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 12 '22

Donald Trump is under criminal investigation for potential violations of the Espionage Act and additional statutes relating to obstruction of justice and destroying federal government records, according to the search warrant executed by FBI agents at the former president’s home on Monday.

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u/one_more_black_guy Aug 12 '22

This may be more part of the reason why he was so adamant to run for 2024.

He could be in real trouble with the Saudis.

Super tin foil here, but what if Jared already cashed the check, but no goods have yet been delivered?

This entire situation is bad. Bad bad. Bad for the country.

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u/Pacifix18 Aug 12 '22

I think you're right on the money.

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u/[deleted] Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 22 '22

[deleted]

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u/one_more_black_guy Aug 12 '22

Also valid.

Would serve to explain the relative haste with which the FBI acted, especially inconsideration of midterms, and the optics of such a move, to execute a warrant on a former president.

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u/guttanzer Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 12 '22

Lots of good points, but this one doesn't seem to be here yet: If Trump had actually declassified TS/SCI info it would have reverted back to its marked classification state on day one of Biden's presidency.

As president, Trump could do what he wanted with classified information, no matter how unwise. The second Biden was sworn in that power transferred to him. If Trump had declassified it only "in his mind" then that declassification would have evaporated the instant Biden was sworn in.

There is a formal process to declassify information because all classified material is controlled. Highly classified material is highly controlled*. This is how people know what is a secret and what is not a secret. If Trump took steps to formally declassify it - basically, submitted a form - the archivists would have updated their databases, located the relevant documents, and changed all the markings.

That would have alerted the folks that classified it in the first place that their secrets were about to be public. Even before Biden took office they would have protested. As Biden''s presidency neared they would have taken steps to have it all it reclassified. On day one of Biden's presidency all the documents would have been seized and re-marked at the proper classification level.

The archivists driving the retrieval of these documents would have shared the fact that they were classified with Trump and his staff. They would have pointed this out in each and every conversation, and notably, the classification levels would have been listed on the subpoena.

So there is literally ZERO chance that the material was actually declassified, literally ZERO chance that Trump or his staff didn't know it was classified, and literally ZERO chance that he or his staff didn't know exactly what the feds were looking for when they asked the first time.

Trump doesn't have a defense. That's why his lawyers are going full OJ.

By definition, leaking TS/SCI info would cause "exceptionally grave damage" to the national security of the USA. It almost doesn't need to be marked. If you see it you just know that it has to stay secret.

Stuffing material like that into a cardboard boxes headed out of the White House is crazy. Keeping those boxes in an unguarded store room in the basement of a resort is mind boggling. Imagine if someone left the schedule and landing sites for D-Day on a coffee table at the Waldorf Astoria. It's that bad. It's much, much worse if what Trump had would give Russia an advantage in a nuclear exchange.

Stealing TS/SCI material is damn close to treason. Not returning it when asked is right on the line. And if he was even thinking of sharing it with our enemies, that IS treason.

Note that historically, treason at that level is usually punished with a swift death. Hanging, shooting, and beheading. Fortunately for the Trumps, this is the USA. The DOJ and judicial systems believe in the rule of law. Trump & co aren't likely experience a swift execution at the hands of a mob, but they are likely to spend the rest of their lives in orange jumpsuits.

* - Highly controlled == library books on steroids - unique ID generated for each report/picture/whatever, all copies numbered, every checked-out numbered copy associated with a specific person, location restricted to a specific secure facility (vault-like set of rooms), spot audits by the security folks, and so on.

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u/tacs97 Aug 12 '22

How else was this guy going to pay his debts? Sell US secrets! If you can honestly tell yourself that this guy truly loves this country, you are insane. He tasted the power that comes with the seat and you can see how it’s going.

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u/phoenixember Aug 12 '22

Can a person overdose on Schadenfreude?

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u/Amrokmfc Aug 12 '22

Btw, the punishment for violating this Act includes the death penalty as an option.

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u/gold_rush_doom Aug 12 '22

The question is... can you be pardoned? Because you bet the next republican president might have that as his target and part of his presidential campaign.

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