r/OnePiece Sep 26 '22 Wholesome 1

Unpopular opinion: kaido was an awesome villain and is easily in the top 3 best one piece antagonists so far Discussion

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1.1k Upvotes

559

u/bumboisamumbo Sep 26 '22

i feel like anyone who genuinely believe that kaido has no characterization is just not reading the story. that is a crazy take, i would also appreciate more detail about his story but we definetly got enough to know what he’s about and how he thinks

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u/corzekanaut Sep 27 '22

Upon watching a recent episode of the anime, where he finally knocks Luffy down the roof and he falls into the sea I was shocked at how much everyone overlooked how well written Kaido was as an antagonist. >! When he says that he knows how Luffy feels overjoyed to be facing such a strong opponent and he doesn't feel the same joy and he envies Luffy was peak characterization of Kaido according to me and he became my top 3 antagonists right alongside Doffy and Katakuri!<

To be fair I think a lot of us feel that Kaido doesn't live up to the hype as an antagonist is because of the lore and plot developments that happens in Wano that shift the focus from him.

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u/Arkaado Sep 27 '22

I wonder how many of these people that think Kaido is boring also love One Punch Man.

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u/R4ndomCharacter Sep 27 '22

Wait what? When did OPM hate started being a thing?

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u/a_cube_root_of_one Sep 27 '22

ikrrr.. i die laughing everytime regardless of whether it's the manga or the webcomic

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u/saurazu Sep 27 '22

Welcome to one piece fandom... Not hating on the fandom but some of you guys need to chill the fuck out

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u/Arkaado Sep 27 '22

Is it? I like OPM.

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u/GIANTkitty4 Explorer Sep 27 '22

I wonder how many of these people that think Kaido is boring also love One Punch Man.

Yeah, but they probably see it as "tHe uLtImAtE PoWeR FaNtAsY" rather than a well-written satire.

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u/ssbm_rando Sep 27 '22

To be fair, Murata himself misses the point more often than not. Listening to people talk about the anime and the Murata manga has quickly gone from "hahah I'm glad you're enjoying this funny series a bit late" to "okay what the fuck did you just say? Please please please read ONE's webcomic so you can understand how fucking stupid it is that Murata drew that."

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u/WendysVapenator Bounty Hunter Sep 27 '22

I don't know bro, him and ONE keep in pretty close relations regarding OPM and I'm pretty sure ONE greenlights basically everything Murata does. If you think that the manga doesn't understand ONE's writing, it kind of implies ONE doesn't understand ONE's writing...

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u/ssbm_rando Sep 27 '22

That's only what they say on the surface. ONE respects Murata heavily as a manga-ka and it seems like he just rubber-stamps what Murata wants to draw.

I genuinely don't believe that ONE would suggest dragging the Garou fight on like Murata has done. Garou never stood a ghost of a chance against Saitama. Murata wanted to do it and so ONE said "sure, make the fight as fun as you want". If you read both, it's literally impossible to believe that anything besides that happened.

If you read the original webcomic and pay careful attention to the fights, even Boros seemed a little stronger than peak Garou. The manga is just idiotic in comparison to the brilliant satire of the webcomic, at this point. The webcomic doesn't need villains to constantly scale upwards because that defeats the point of the satire.

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u/Beardamus Sep 27 '22

"I dislike the direction its headed so its clearly different than what the author literally says". The ego is insane on people in this sub lmfao

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u/HopOnTheHype Sep 27 '22

How is katakuri and doflamingo even close to crocodile?

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u/kingshamroc25 Thriller Bark Victim's Association Sep 27 '22

You just listed my top 3 so they’re pretty close in my book

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u/InformationFlaky1433 Sep 27 '22

Crocidile tried to do what Doflamingo successfully did. Real question is how is crocodile close to Doflamingo?

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u/mattxrock The Revolutionary Army Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

Because Croco's still the original idea (as you imply as well, Doflamingo is too similar) and he was much more menacing in comparison to the main characters at its time, the Shichibukai were the real deal while Doflamingo was literally the 3rd one Luffy defeated and we already knew about Admirals and Yonko being sizably stronger than him.

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u/Eddje Void Month Survivor Sep 27 '22

I prefer Croco-boy as a villian as well for the reasons you mention above, but one thing Doffy completely smacks him in, is his backstory. It makes Doffy a more intriguing character than Crocodile imo, sadly he's too similar to Croco for him to have had the same impact.

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u/Reach_Reclaimer Void Month Survivor Sep 27 '22

That's not well written? That's just being slightly complex

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '22

[deleted]

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u/Kahnoso Sep 27 '22

Like One Piece, they say is good.

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u/robotWarrior94 Void Month Survivor Sep 27 '22

One Piece is written for children, my dude, even if adults can enjoy it too

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u/docarwell Sep 27 '22 Silver

I feel like half the people in manga subbreddits are illiterate tbh

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u/Far-Peanut-9458 Sep 27 '22

Me fail English? That’s unpossible

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u/Xenosaiyan7 Sep 27 '22

Kim possible

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u/Dillo64 Thriller Bark Victim's Association Sep 27 '22

No I’m…. doesn’t!

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u/t3rrone Sep 27 '22

Who need read if there prutty draws

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u/Mafsto Sep 27 '22

I can’t upvote this comment enough. Was just ranting to a family member about this issue.

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u/Eliseo120 Sep 27 '22

Probably more in this one.

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u/docarwell Sep 27 '22

I think the Jujutsu Kaisen manga sub is the worst. Legitimately don't even know what they're reading sometimes

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u/Omni-Man_was_right Sep 27 '22

I always see the dumbest questions posted in that sub, it’s like they’re goldfish and forget everything as soon as they finish a chapter lol

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u/DaRootbear Sep 27 '22

Manga: this character has become fully realized toji Jjk sub: so do you think character is at his level yet?

Honestly yeah you are totally right

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u/Boss2788 Sep 27 '22

Lol to be fair its like MHA had a baby with Hunter X Hunter. Sometimes im reading abilities or plans or strategies and just like wtf wait and have to kick back a few pages just to wrap my head around what theyre saying.

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u/Sargent_Caboose Sep 27 '22

You read the squiggles on the page? They always just get in the way of my punch fight!!

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u/Dayvfish Sep 27 '22

It’s not illiteracy. It’s people on here just want to speed read and get to the forum as fast as possible. Details and paying attention to panels is irrelevant. Just show the text.

Prime example: I must have read 20-30 comments “Where’s Caribou” after the last chapter. He got his own panel in the after match. Was it big? No. Was it a panel for just him? Yes. Did it take a microscope and a strong penchant for philateling to find that out? No 😂

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u/Radiant_Following285 Explorer Sep 27 '22

in all of reddit, "hot takes" always get the most upvotes

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u/Smashymen Sep 27 '22

For thinking that Kaido has poor characterisation and little intrigue compared to the other Emperors?

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u/docarwell Sep 27 '22

Nah for the constant shit takes that don't make sense if you actually read the chapter

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u/Lesserd Pirate Sep 27 '22

He had a lot of really interesting characterization and was shaping up to be one of the best villains, but Oda threw it away and didn't actually explore his character.

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u/viseradius Sep 27 '22

I would like to read a side story of him.

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u/FaithlessnessWaste94 Sep 27 '22

By one piece standardsand how much back story they gave big mom, Kaido wasn’t that developed but honestly I rather have it the way it is.

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u/lordfifth1212 Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

Back story== development.

Kaido got a lot I mean alot of development by dialogue.

Unless crocodile isn't developed at all.

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u/DarkSoulFWT Thriller Bark Victim's Association Sep 27 '22

You missed the / in the =/=

But yea I feel like for some reason people let the other villains slide on this point, but when it came to Kaido, everyone did a 180 and started conflating these concepts together. Short and shoddy backstory = not developed all of a sudden. Literally all we know about Croc's past is that hes indebted to ivankov for smth, lost to WB once and became a schibukai. All of which we learned years after Alabasta.

One of the most beloved antagonists xD

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u/Kureiton Sep 27 '22

I think there are two pretty major differences. Expectations and setup

Expectations: How many villains before Croc had deep backstories? None of them. Arlong had, like the deepest backstory I guess, but it was very bare bones. One Piece villains hadn't been established to be deep at this point.

Compare that to Kaido. We just got two of the best damn villains backstories (Doffy and Big Mom) pretty much back to back. We have consistently gotten more involved backstories of villains, from Moria having his crew wiped to even Hody's, which, while basic, is unique and thought provoking. This combined with the fact that Kaido had been a hanging threat over the story for a decade naturally meant there were high expectations for his character and backstory

Setup: and I think there's setup for Kaido that's ultimately disappointing as well. I would say there are three things to Kaido's character that were setup without much payoff

  • His introduction being him trying to commit suicide. This is such an interesting and unique way to introduce this character. It raises so many questions, namely, why would he actually be happy if he died by jumping off an island? How would this complete him as a person? We didn't get an answer beyond just being a hobby, and I think that's pretty disappointing
  • His statements about how Yamato's oni blood would never allow her to be accepted (on top of his connections to the Numbers and Onigashima). This never gets elaborated on, and his backstory makes it seem like he's just a normal human. That's also boring and doesn't really explain his character or belief of why Yamato would never be accepted
  • His statement about how pirates will always betray each other. This one genuinely doesn't make sense to me. The only group that was actually shown betraying Kaido was the vodka kingdom, not pirates. In fact, the only pirate we see betraying anyone is Kaido betraying Big Mom. Why would he be focused on the idea of pirates betraying each other when he himself only faced betrayal from the government?

    I think these three are all examples of payoff that's less interesting than the setup, and that's why I find Kaido lacking as a villain even if he provides a fight that's a spectacle like no other in the series

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u/lordfifth1212 Sep 27 '22

Your first point is addressed, kaido commits "suicide" In front of a large group of witness*, his immediate statement after surviving is that " white beard did it right".

It here being death, kaido doenst want a death, he wants a great one like white beard's, that makes him immortal

This further ties into rocks, rocks is dead, dead in the metaphorical sense, nobody remembers him, his memory is dead, and in one piece a man only dies when forgotten.

So kaido develops a desire to not meet the same fate as his captain.

" Death completes a person" is a direct quote from kaido, it immortalise a person, if your death is grand enough no body can erase you from history(whit beard/ Roger)

As for betrayal this is obvious as hell, rocks was betrayed by big mom and white beard, rocks was left to die against Roger and garp, his crew survived because they ran away.

*To spread the legend of he did indeed die, and people forget that kaido jumped because appo told him about the alliance.

And this isn't at all headcanon, this is surface level analysis and tying together details, rocks is forgotten today's and that is mentioned as a plot point, kaido wants to die like white beard( a direct statement white beard did it right), we can link these easily, kaido was a part of rocks crew.

The only valid point is about the oni stuff.

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u/Kureiton Sep 27 '22

And how is dying by jumping off an island a “great death like Whitebeard’s?” Imagine if he actually died here, how would this let him be remembered in the same way as Whitebeard?

As for betrayal this is obvious as hell, rocks was betrayed by big mom and white beard, rocks was left to die against Roger and garp, his crew survived because they ran away.

So Big Mom betrayed Rocks, but was pissed when Kaido did the same to her in the same battle? And Whitebeard betrayed them too? Doesn’t really seem like him. Sure wish we got to see this play out instead of having to make assumptions to fill in the story

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u/lordfifth1212 Sep 27 '22

My guy death by sky island on front of thosuands of people is a grand death, also kaido wanst really banking on a death here,he was interrupting the alliance(using appo's info)

Not on the level of white beard sure, but it is a death that will be remembered, a unique death.

As for big and white beard betraying the rocks it's obvious, big mom trashes rocks (verbally)in kaido's flashback, and white beard never wanted to be there.

Plus Roger and garp got rocks and his crew, only rocks died, i wonder what happened? It doenst take much to out two and two together and figure out that rocks got betrayed after wb/bm/kaido saw that the battle was done for.

White beard also doenst like his days at rocks at all, we saw that with the oden flashback.

They didn't capital B betray him (stab him in the back), they just ran away when they saw that they were losing since nearly all of them probably didn't like each other.

Bm betrays people all the time, hell she betrayed the German in her own arc why are you surprised that she would be hypocritical!!!!!

Also when did kaido betray big mom ?(they both knew they would do so eventually but when did he do so in the battle)

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u/Kureiton Sep 27 '22

My guy death by sky island on front of thosuands of people is a grand death, also kaido wanst really banking on a death here,he was interrupting the alliances.

the first thing he says after landing was disappointment that he didn't die, and frankly, I just don't see how jumping off an island is a grand death. Like, at all, really. It wouldn't say anything about Kaido; he'd just be dead and forgotten lmao

Plus Roger and garp got rocks and his crew, only rocks died, i wonder what happened? It doenst take much to out two and two together and figure out that rocks got betrayed after wb/bm/kaido saw that the battle was done for.

I mean, death in One Piece isn't exactly common, we already know Kaido betrayed Rocks, and its an alliance of Garp and Roger. I don't think this setup necessitates Big Mom and Whitebeard to betray them, and again, sure would've been nice to see it

Also when did kaido betray big mom ?(they both knew they would do so eventually but when did he do so on the battle)

In the flashback to the God Valley incident in 1049. That's why I find the idea of her betraying Rocks so strange as she was pissed that Kaido did the same in the same battle

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u/Tuyet2BDead Sep 27 '22

To be fair, perhaps any further and we would enter Rocks Pirate territory. For some reason, people say Kaido is suicidal, but that is not the focus. He tells us word for word the one to defeat him is JoyBoy. When he failed to become so, he lamented drunk himself and then developed the death philosophy. He lamented when he knocked out Luffy over the cliff that He too couldn't become JoyBoy.

Kaido and literally the New World is just people getting their dreams crushed by reality and coping. Even the Grand line was just teenage angst in that we have similar people like Don Krieg, and Captain Kuro who retreated from the Grand line. Everyone we see is just an alegory for adults who work 9-5 slaving away at their jobs molded by their governments.

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u/OnePiece-VT The Revolutionary Army Sep 27 '22

Wow someone who actually reads the story 👏

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u/bumboisamumbo Sep 27 '22

characterization =/= backstory

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u/Leftieswillrule Sep 27 '22

Yeah, I thought Kaido's character was very fascinatingly revealed via the snippets we got of him. We're literally introduced to him as he's suicidal, seeking death and, when it fails, seeking to cause death. We see him drunk and crying about his boredom, we see him drunk and clashing with Luffy, expressing emotions we never expect to see from a main villain during a fight, and when he wins with someone's help, he's filled with anger and regret because he respected Luffy enough to want to win the fight without aid. His whole character is like a Saitama style guy who lives for the fight and loses his purpose when he doesn't have anyone to surpass, his biggest shame being the fights he didn't truly win of his own strength. I'd say he's much more compelling of a character than Big Mom at this point.

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u/Hobblescotch Sep 27 '22

Nah man you just can't read /s

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u/FaithlessnessWaste94 Sep 27 '22

Yes I can your a liar!

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u/Embarrassed_Ad_5735 Sep 27 '22

Thing I only could remember was the flashback between King and him.

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u/thebest50 Sep 27 '22

He had characterization. It just wasn't very good.

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u/Fatdude3 Sep 27 '22

He had characterization and actually too much of it imo. He tries to kill himself all the time? Ok . He wants gigantic war? Ok He wants to drive people in Wano into a corner to hopefully make a Joyboy? Ok. He also wants to be Joyboy? Ok. He had all these stuff yet never an explanation on whys or how he came to these conclusions. He was very superficial

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u/bumboisamumbo Sep 27 '22

honestly, this is probably the fairest criticism angle imo. i still disagree with it because of how i like to enjoy stories but i can definitely see how people could feel this way

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u/SpikeSpiegel76 Sep 26 '22

He could've been the best imo but Oda fumbled the bag

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u/CuteTao Sep 27 '22

It's very clear oda was rushing to end wano.

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u/Toza11 Sep 27 '22

Honestly the samurai stuff is some of the least enjoyable content in Wano. Remember Oda when mixed GEAR FIFTHS FUCKING REVEAL with Hiyoris confrontation with Orochi. That happened way too many times. Also Big Mom is more interesting than Kaido, she's an amazing villain which Oda memed in Wano so we'd focus on Kaido

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u/Shaponja Sep 28 '22

Idk man, I found the samurai struggle to be very interesting, it was widely developed and in the work since Punk Hazard. To see each of them get their revenge was really touching. Yeah some subplots might've been a drag but they all tied together in the end

But I do agree that Big Mom is interesting and was kinda done dirty in Wano. She's so damn unique and menacing

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u/Cloudus-maximus44 God Usopp Sep 27 '22

Ok so I disagree with you from a manga perspective. I think overall Kaido in the manga is a fine villain, but his motivation being just pure bordem while in character have been done before. When you compare it to Doffy, Katikuri, and Crocodile who are are all morally complex and creative characters who have interesting motivations its just not as awesome to read.

but...

Holy shit I FUCKING LOVE ANIME KAIDO. Kaido as a villian is meant to be pure fucking power and while you understand his power in the manga YOU FUCKING FEEL IT IN THE ANIME. He just has this presence in the anime that feels lacking in the manga and maybe it has to do with the voice actor or the animation because holy shit is he fucking awesome and fun to watch. Would I have him over Doffy or Katikuri? Nah but 3rd place is still top 3.

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u/thefoodiedentist Sep 27 '22

He's a depressed alcoholic who wants to see the world burn cuz he couldn't be a real (joy)boy

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u/Sueramededa Sep 27 '22

Its a nice catch. But how about his suicide trial and honored death? Seems contradicting each other

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u/RevolutionaryDelay93 Sep 27 '22

What does depression lead to??

How long has he being depressed???

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u/Rangoldy Sep 27 '22

Def unpopular. Big Mom is more interesting than Kaido. Her whole crew’s family dynamic is pretty unique.

Crocodile is in the top 3 for me. The whole plot of alabasta was crazy intricate - setting up this huge plan to avail himself of any weakness in that environment.

Doflammingo should probably be in there as well, because we got the full backstory and a fleshed out character.

CP9 would probably round out mine. The government planting those agents in Water 7 for so long to try to uncover a super power is pretty crazy.

Big Mom might end up in my top 3 if we see her again. Maybe the backstory is finished, but it feels like maybe there’s some underlying good that could be beneath the surface. I’m hoping her mother has taken over her consciousness.

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u/Beeg_Bagz Sep 27 '22

Big Moms family dynamic is heinous. Brother will kill brother sister will kill sister at a whim. Big Mom will kill her own children for her own gain. Big Moms family dynamic is sick and twisted they got Resident Evil Village vibes.

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u/Shirou0238 Sep 27 '22

Only katakuri will do everything do protect his family such as brulee

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u/jackofslayers Sep 27 '22

I really hope we get some follow up on the Charlotte family without Big Mom.

I really hope that Lin Lin gets her wish in death. Like after she dies, the last races that are missing finally move into her kingdom.

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u/ovis_alba Void Month Survivor Sep 26 '22

To me he ended up being disappointing for much he was build up because there are way too many weird and unexplained inconsistencies with him and his character. And while I get that oda might keep some of his background secret that doesn't help me connect with Kaido as a villain in the present when it actually matters. Giving Kaido more background through e.g. Rocks later down the line now after his defeat won't fix that while he was the main antagonist I didn't really care too much about him. More characterization down the line is nice-to-have but doesn't fix that Kaido didn’t end up being that interesting while he actually mattered to the story.

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u/SPS_Agent Sep 27 '22

Whitebeard is pretty sick. He got half a page for his backstory.

"Oh hey Whitebeard, why are you a pirate man?"

"Oh I'd like a family"

"Oh, wild".

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u/Guiscardus Sep 27 '22

Who’s to say he won’t matter later on?

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u/Mafsto Sep 27 '22

This person’s point is that the most relevant information for the villain should be presented when that character is center stage. Any other time is just a waste.

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u/Toza11 Sep 27 '22

Like Bog Mom, she got a full characterization other than mama mode in WCI

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u/ovis_alba Void Month Survivor Sep 27 '22

He could. But nothing can fix that he felt lackluster to me during especially the later parts of Wano. The arc and that fight is over even if Kaido eventually comes back with an "improved" and better explained character and motivation. If Kaido 2.0 comes back and is a great character that's great, but Wano-Kaido was one of the weaker villains to me and made me care less about the fight against him while that fight was happening, so bringing him back won't retroactively improve my reading experience. That ship has sailed.

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u/ZeroSevenOneOneSeven Sep 27 '22

One way of recasting it is that Kaido is just an incomplete character - he doesn't need a 2.0 version, he just need to be completed at some point later down the line. One Piece is ultimately written(as most stories are) to be consumed as a whole and not as a weekly drip feed, so for me this kind of completion is enough to fully "redeem" his arc, but it might not be for you.

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u/ovis_alba Void Month Survivor Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

But even consuming the story as a whole won't fix that Kaido feels not really compelling to me as a villain at this point in the story where he already got defeated and that also doesn't change by binging it (which I btw still mostly did for Wano as I only caught up to read weekly for chapter 1044, so my Kaido impression isn't even from weekly reading).

I simply want to be invested in a character while their arc is happening. If e.g. somehow oda retroactively writes a super interesting and compelling backstory that makes Wapol suddenly an amazingly deep character, then that itself might be great, but it wouldn't improve his somewhat more lackluster role during Drum Island for me. There sort of is a timeframe to make me invested in a character and Kaido lost me somewhere along the way.

If anything Kaido already got too much stuff going on. Him being the insanely strong odd Oni kid that got used and abused for war purposes which is the only thing he grew up with, would have been perfectly fine. It wouldn't have been the most complex villain maybe but fitting enough for Kaido and imho the simplicity at least to me would have worked fine. But he then also got the connection with Rocks, which ok fine we can learn about later and then the extra special relationship with Big Mom that is also kept a mystery. And then he makes a connection with King after being captured and somehow there is this Joyboy myth which we also can't explain yet. On top of that the Kurozumi old lady is suddenly someone whose plan to take over Wano he goes along with also without us ever really learning why. And then rather than just go with his typical "strength rules all" credo, he goes the more sneaky way and works with and essentially as a protector for someone like Orochi for decades (?). Is there a weird connection that would explain it? Seemingly not really because years later he is fine "killing" both of them without blinking an eye. And have I mentioned the weird relationship with his daughter/son yet?

Kaido just comes of as super inconsistent at times because none of his motives are ever really explained well. He's someone that seems to respect only the strong, but is fine working with Orochi all this time. He kills the old Kurozumi lady seemingly on a whim as she ruined his duell with Oden but also doesn't really honor Oden's last deal himself. And if that inconsistency is supposed to be part of his character then I still don't see how he stuck to his Wano plans for so long. I at some point simply got tired of all the various things going on with Kaido that individually would have been intersting but in combination just gave me whiplash as it ended up not really fitting together for me. Especially when half of it is apparently deliberately kept secret for longer.

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u/ZeroSevenOneOneSeven Sep 27 '22

I see your perspective. I look forward to understanding more about him later, but I get why that is unsatisfying to you.

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u/ovis_alba Void Month Survivor Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

I actually also look forward to getting some more answers to him as well, I just don't think it helps me appreciate him more retroactively for his role in Wano. Not saying no to more interesting lore about him though, that's still appreciated.

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u/KobeFanNumber24 Sep 27 '22

He had the potential to be but oda fumbled the bag in wano

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u/funkyvenom6 Pirate Sep 26 '22

Kaido could’ve been imo, but he wasn’t fleshed out enough. Sure we don’t need to get spoon fed all this info about him and we can imply some things, but we should’ve gotten more info about him regarding Joyboy. Or how he recruited his crew mates (other than King).

Kaido was a cool villain and had more potential, but he’s not done yet. Once the God Valley flashback comes around, I’m sure that’ll give us some more information about him.

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u/jesterstyr The Revolutionary Army Sep 27 '22

The only real question I have is; What is Kaido's history with being betrayed?

Otherwise he was very intimidating and a wonderful wall for Luffy.

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u/funkyvenom6 Pirate Sep 27 '22

When he was a kid he got betrayed and sold to the WG, but he kept escaping. Maybe he got betrayed during God Valley too? Or maybe he betrayed Rocks?

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u/jesterstyr The Revolutionary Army Sep 27 '22

That betrayal could be part of it, but Kaido made a specific point about pirates betraying others.

My thought is that whatever Xebec wanted with God Valley, Newgate could've morally objected and flipped sides. Seeing the first-mate betray them would probably leave quite the mark on the aprentice.

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u/ayo816 Sep 27 '22

yeah i agree. i feel like the fight dragged on way too long. We already had a good understanding of how overwhelmingly strong kaido was. him beating luffy over and over wasn't necessary at all to me. if we couldve gotten more chapters about his interactions with rocks or other yonkou, that wouldve been great. big mom and doflamingo got great backstory chapters whereas Kaido's seemed rushed and melded into Oden's instead of his own

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u/Coconut-Crab Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

I’m inclined to agree.

While Wano was being written I was very excited about Kaido because I thought his character was building towards the idea that he enslaved an entire nation purely to lure out Joyboy (the personification of freedom) so he could bring the “new dawn” and liberate the entire planet, making Kaido a morally grey, “for the greater good”, type of character.

I also thought that this would be the dramatic reveal behind why he’s so depressed and an alcoholic; his knowledge that even becoming “the world’s strongest creature” wasn’t enough to save the world, and that it had to be Joyboy.

A lot of this stuff is implied sure, and I’m glad that it’s not dumbed down and spoon-fed, but imo it could have been more explicit and fleshed out for characterisation. I think it could have seriously made him a top 1 villain.

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u/funkyvenom6 Pirate Sep 27 '22

Yeah, too implicit, it’s fine that it was a little implicit, but we could’ve gotten more info.

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u/NinaJova Citizen Sep 26 '22

Doflamingo and Blackbeard easily take the first two spots, no debate.

So basically what you are saying is that Kaido is a better antagonist than the likes of Akainu, Arlong, Enel, Crocodile, Big Mom and let's say Lucci?

I don't know about that.

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u/demonicafro Thriller Bark Victim's Association Sep 26 '22

Enies Lobby is my favorite saga but Lucci is so bland as a villain, he’s literally just a tool. Spandam was the real villain that arc

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u/AllisonTheGreatOne Sep 26 '22

I mean isn’t that the point of luccis character? To be a tool for the government

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u/Sotler Explorer Sep 26 '22

I guess he‘s saying that he didn’t feel it. Tastes are different but I think his character is kinda realistic even. Someone who wants to free his sadistic desires by working on the side of the law. That’s his freedom I guess, killing and fighting as much as he wants without repercussions

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u/don_leno Sep 27 '22

just because "that's the point" doesn't automatically make Lucci a great villain. he's a one-note brute, a nuanceless sack of muscle, he's boring. yeah, that was probably on purpose, but that doesn't absolve him of being boring

12

u/AFSunred Sep 27 '22

I dont think a villain needs to have some super deep back story to be interesting. The twist in Water 7 and just the threat he posed and how he was built up is more than enough to make up for him not being very humanized. The mad villain(the villain with no other goal but to be an obstacle and kill and destroy) can be interesting too.

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u/don_leno Sep 27 '22

Yeah, sure, but this isn't examining Lucci in a vacuum. It's comparing him to other villains, and he is boring next to other villains

11

u/ayo816 Sep 27 '22

i feel like you're focusing on Lucci's character and not his impact as a villain. Water 7 arc was a great prelude arc to one of the greatest arcs in One Piece and I don't think that would have been possible if we didn't have Lucci as just a cold blooded ruthless killer that inspired fear into the strawhats. The fear and doubt that he created through his strength to the crew sent a chill down my spine and that was what allowed the strawhats to overcome their fears and truly be united as a crew.

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u/unhealthyseal Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

That is part of it, but that’s it, other than “him strong, so I must be stronger”.

Like if I compare him to Katakuri, he falls flat on his face. The layers to that fight are far more in-depth and thought provoking than Lucci.

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u/Space_Pirate_Roberts Sep 27 '22

Spandam was the real villain that arc

And a better one than Kaido, power level be damned.

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u/Remote_Dapper Sep 27 '22

His presence alone was intimidating and increased the tension. His role in the story of the arc he was in perfectly displayed his character as a cold blooded murderer who was 10x more appealing to look at on screen than Kaido.

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u/ssbm_rando Sep 27 '22

who was 10x more appealing to look at on screen than Kaido.

Hmm... but what if Kaido also had a pigeon? :)

5

u/AscendedDragonSage Sep 27 '22

And a dapper top hat

3

u/GoonHxC Sep 27 '22

True af. I always felt like a main boss was missing since he wasn’t a boss the elephant guy was their leader but he was lame.

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u/SalltyJuicy Bandit Sep 27 '22

Yeah, that's kind of the point of him though? He doesn't really have a bit scene stealing character but I like what he represents thematically. Kaido on the other hand isn't really all that interesting imo. Dude just wants to rampage and/or die? Kind of seems like those are his only two motivations at any given time.

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u/peytonrains Sep 26 '22

Katakuri?

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u/Maepex Sep 27 '22

Katakuri’s amazing but he’s not the main focus of WCI, Big Mom is. Plus he’s too legitimately sympathetic and kind-hearted to be on the same level of villainy as Kaido, Doffy, Croc, etc.

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u/FluffyPallasCat Sep 27 '22

kills 3 dudes that saw his face

16

u/Oligarr Sep 27 '22

It's easy to forget that one piece is a series about criminals sometimes. Every character you is pretty chill has at some point killed a dozen grunts. Like bon clay

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u/peytonrains Sep 27 '22

Nah, he is definitely a main antagonist of that arc. Big mom may have been the main antagonist, but he's number 2.

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u/Spurrierball Sep 27 '22

Decent antagonist? Yeah sure. But there are a ton of great antagonists in this story. Would be better if he said “isn’t a bottom 5”.

3

u/toweal Explorer Sep 27 '22

I'd say Doffy, BB, Croc, and BM are better than Kaido, but not Akainu (not yet), Arlong, Enel, or Lucci.

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u/XIMarleyIX Sep 26 '22

First of I agree with your first two picks.

The question is what makes a good villain and does a good villain has to be an interesting character? That would be a discussion to have. For now I'd say a good villain needs to be 1. menacing/evil, 2. strong in comparison to the protagonist at that point (for shonen) and 3. should be an "interesting" character.

Kaido is the first two, not really the third.

I'd like to make a quick comparison in regards to that to your list (imo).

Akainu: 1. Yes, on a level Kaido could never reach for not killing anybody imo. 2. Yes, 3. Yes, but only to a degree

Arlong: 1. Yes, 2. To a degree, 3. He became more interesting way later (Kaido could too tbf), but at the time no

Enel: 1. Yes, 2. No due to the rubber thing, 3. Not really

Crocodile: 1. Yes, 2. Yes, 3. To a degree, he had something special that Kaido lacks. Hard to put into words. Something like Doffy had even before knowing his backstory.

Big Mom: 1. Yes at WCI, in general No (she was clowned one to many times), 2. Yes, 3. Yes.

Edit: Forgot Lucci: 1. Yes, 2. Yes, 3. To a degree

Going by that list Kaido would probably be closer to my top 3 than I thought beforehand honestly, cause I didn't think he was a great villain. But this comment is also not very in depth and without a lot of thought.😅

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u/Eminence_Kuro Sep 26 '22

Maybe that special something crocodile and Doffy had was more interesting talking/trash talk. It's been a long time for them, but Kaido was stingy with his words besides saying folks were weak

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u/XIMarleyIX Sep 26 '22

I guess charisma was what I was looking for.

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '22

I’ll need more Blackbeard back story to like him as a villain more tbh

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u/Kuro013 Sep 26 '22

For me Crocodile is better than BB, but this can change.

7

u/wispymatrias Pirate Sep 26 '22

lol blackbeard? Caman

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u/milkyjoe241 Sep 27 '22

Blackbeard is one of the best. The moment where his plan comes together that we saw pieces build up to during the entirety of paradise is amazing.

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u/Cautious_c Sep 27 '22

Kaidos whole story is "I'm strong and no one can beat me"

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u/CheFCharlieCharles Sep 27 '22

Doffy #1 until BB’s backstory gets flushed out.

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u/NoDragonfruit7115 Sep 26 '22

Akainu, Spandam, Hordy, Arlong, hell even Caeser are better than Kaido imo.

Not that Kaido is bad, but in the world of one piece hes very generic shonen bad guy.

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u/_Lab_Member_001_ Sep 26 '22

Bro really tried to sneak Hordy in there

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u/LegendaRReddit Sep 27 '22

😂😂😂

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u/AltforHHH Sep 27 '22

Hody is a good villain I never understood the hate

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u/NoDragonfruit7115 Sep 26 '22

Hordy is one of my top boys. Raised from childhood to hate, no real personal grudge or goal.

To me hes the most realistic of the villains

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u/Mirai_no_Beederu Void Month Survivor Sep 26 '22

While Kaido was built up and lasted for awhile (it felt like Luffy was fighting him forever) he ultimately came off as flat. Even Big Mom has more depth, as crazy as her character is.

You're free to like Kaido, OP, but he came off as a disappointment to me.

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u/gmussi Sep 26 '22

Same, due to rush of wano. I think everybody expected a flashback. In WCI big mom had a super interesting flashback cuinating with she eating everyone… Oda could have dropped some lore on Joyboy, regret after Odens death, anything

3

u/Manler Sep 27 '22

Wano rush? It was the longest arc in the series by a lot

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u/Optimus_LaughTale Sep 27 '22

And it was still rushed, crazy right?

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u/Karlomah11 Sep 27 '22

some thing where unnecessary, lik the fucking ice onies, it would have been better if that time was speend on a kaido flashback, but it oda is obviously saving it for later

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u/Transkiller99 Sep 27 '22

Not even in my top 5. barley in my top 10.

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u/27dominador Sep 26 '22

Kaido had a lot of potential but in the end he was flat. The top comment is right in the end Kaido was just like Jiren.

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u/Mastrodaumus World Government Sep 27 '22

Kaido just wasn’t interesting. Best villains are normally ones that make you hate them. I don’t think anyone really hated kaido (imo).

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u/Megadoomer2 Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

What makes you say that?

I felt like he was like Jiren from Dragon Ball Super, where he's a huge physical threat and a major obstacle for the protagonist to overcome, but he had next to no characterization. (Probably not helped by his extremely fragmented flashback)

Kaidou had more potential than Jiren, but there were plenty of unknowns in his history that were never really addressed - who was Yamato's mom? Why did Kaidou feel the need to rule Wano through figureheads like Orochi and Yamato? What about his time with the Rocks Pirates? It's implied that he was so focused on Wano because of Pluton, but that's just a guess - he acted like there was some deep reason that Yamato wouldn't understand, but "there's a super-powerful ancient weapon beneath the island" seems pretty easily understandable. He brought up that Onis were discriminated against and that Yamato would never make friends with humans, but his backstory didn't indicate why he thought that.

I'm interested to see why you say that, though, because I might have missed something by just reading the series weekly.

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u/mattxrock The Revolutionary Army Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

Nah, he was in Wano because he wanted to fight Joyboy after he realised it wasn't him, that's what I understood.

He didn't rule it himself because he doesn't really give a fuck, he wanted to change the World and topple the government, realised he could not and became depressed and bitter, so his goal became to have a legendary fight and even defeat the guy who supposedly can, to prove himself what's his own worth as he never had a TRUE big W against another top tier in his whole life.

Sadly Oda made things so vague than anything looks like speculation.

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u/MonkeyDLofwyr Sep 27 '22

I think your interpretation comes through clearly. It'll be fun to get more details, but that skeleton of a history is pretty obvious. And it's a good skeleton. A broken idealist who tries to realize his dream another way.

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u/CouchRadish Sep 27 '22

A man who both could not be defeated who he dreamed of defeating above him, and a man who could not be defeated by those below him. He was stuck in his broken mentality and saw his only escape was to either be taken down by the man he thought he could be, or bring the entire world into the same pit of suicidal despair he found himself in. And the complete subjugation of a country to make either of these escapes happen means nothing to him.

He was an insurmountable relic of the old world that was taken down by younger and more passionate pirates. Oda is on the record saying “In a 1-on-1, always bet on Kaido” but it may be a clever way for Oda to say “one man can’t change the world on his own”.

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u/polkmydot Sep 26 '22

He killed that witch. That’s a big win in my book.

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u/Brimo958 Sep 26 '22

When he escaped from Vegapunk wasn't he saying he wanted to be Joyboy or find who it is or something, somehow he knew Wano has a significant importance that if Joyboy were to be alive he would come there. He had an idea Pluton was there but he had no way of destroying the boarders in order to get it, so instead of just leaving it like that he decided to rule over wano. Yamato's mother bears no significance to the story in my opinion. And Kaido's past will expanded on more in the future when we get deeper into this ark probably since Vegapunk had him.

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u/Cocabonzao Sep 26 '22

He never said he was Joyboy...King believed he was. Kaido only said he would change the world

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u/EmergencyEye7 Slave Sep 26 '22

That's a reasonable theory, but the problem is that we are left to speculate on this in the first place without firm evidence one way or the other. We may get more info in the future, but it would be a huge dramatic waste by that point. Kaido had his day in the sun and he wasted it. We're better spent just moving on.

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u/rush563 Sep 26 '22

Jiren wasn’t mean to be these deep characters. He just another competitor trying to save his life and his universe. Unlike kaido who oda hype him to these deep character.

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u/BlatterSlatter Slave Sep 26 '22

it's unpopular for a reason.

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u/Th3Bumblebee Sep 26 '22

Next to no character depth. Almost any other villain could be put in the same spot and serve the same role as long as they were powered up. Everyone has their opinion tho

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u/Brocoolee Sep 26 '22

Yeah unpopular indeed, rightfully so.

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u/bobpsycho100 Sep 26 '22

He has a lot of unresolved points, like wano itself. Wano ending was rushed for kanji wordplays in chapter numbers and film red, and I think Kaido backstory was cut.

I could even make the bold claim that the whole not opening the gates of wano was an afterthought to end the arc faster (until I'm shown otherwise), it was extremely anticlimatic and out of character.

Problem with Kaido is tone inconsistency between the goofy drunkyard and the cruel tyrant bits, with both personalities being quite incomplete and disconnected from each other. Why Kaido was deluded and turned so evil?

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u/bumboisamumbo Sep 26 '22

the border not being opened was already thought about when momo was doubting odens choice in the middle of the raid. a ruthless tyrant who is also a raging alcoholic doesn’t seem inconsistent at all. someone can be two separate things and they don’t have to be completely one not fully evil and serious or just goofy. it would be like saying katakuri is inconsistent because he is so badass but also he’s goofy when eating his donuts

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u/Scary-Cockroach-4720 Sep 27 '22

Wano wasn't rushed because of film red, how does that even makes sense if the movie is not canon? Do you even have a source for that?

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u/MrFundamentals101 Sep 27 '22

Because when you look at the bigger picture, the chapter with shanks using his haki on greenbull was clear fan service which coincided with the Japanese release of film red

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u/Tails6666 Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

It's kind of a reach honestly and it also kind of makes sense story wise for Shanks to appear during the Yonko saga.

This is just a cynical take in my opinion.

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u/DrStein1010 Sep 26 '22

I don't think he's even top 10.

Which is a big problem considering how much screentime and build up he got.

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u/felixng2015 Sep 26 '22

I put croc dofla akainu and bb over him very easily.

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u/sunaesw Bounty Hunter Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

I don't think that Kaido was well written, but he served his role as a stepping stone for Luffy to become a Yonko. Kaido was powerful and threatening, but that's it. Unfortunately, his backstory didn't do what it was supposed to do: Explain Kaido's origins and why he is like he is. Whatever happend to the whole Oni stuff? It was randomly revealed to us in Kaido's fight with Yamato that Kaido is a Oni, but his backstory never went into that.

All Kaido's backstory did is reminding us of something we were already aware of, that Kaido is strong. Given Kaido's history with the Rocks Pirates, his connection to the old Kurozumi granny, his obsession with Joy Boy and death, his respect for Roger, Whitebeard, and Oden, his alcohol problems and unstable moments of crying, and him being a Oni, I at least expected Kaido's backstory to explain why he's so obsessed with Joy Boy or why he's mentally so unstable that he sometimes goes from a terrifying badass, to a alcoholic crybaby in a matter of seconds.

Just...such a waste of potential. I really hoped to see how he was like after he killed Oden. Did he regret it? Is Oden's death the reason for Kaido's alcohol problems? Who knows. We'll never know.

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u/tektek10 Sep 26 '22

Doflamingo, crocodile takes top 1 and 2 .. kaido is overrated .. a very strong villain is really uninteresting

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u/Liquid_Gabs Sep 26 '22

I felt that Kaido was as shallow as a puddle, he felt like "I'm strong and angry" with nothing else going on, for the hype he was getting he was absolutely a threat and strong but that was it and for the point we are now, more than 20+ years, this saga deserved a better villain, specially for One Piece.

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u/gyuukarubi5 Sep 27 '22

um, he was introduced into the series attempting to commit suicide and that’s “shallow”???

kaidō is a walking mess of intentional contradiction and confusion over his identity; he’s exceptionally complex and the characterization you outline is way too simple tbh

like we still don’t have an answer for his motivations because Oda is trying to save it for later. just like how we don’t understand why sukiyaki chose to protect two kurozumi — it has to do with history

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u/TrickNatural Sep 26 '22

I find Katakuri, Croco, Doffy, Arlong and Lucci much more compelling.
Dare I say, I find Big Mom and Enel more compelling as well.
Kaido was just a massively strong dude with very little in terms of depth and very little in the way of charisma and personality. Sure, its a huge obstacle to overcome, but he is the very definition of "one-note" villain.

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u/bumboisamumbo Sep 26 '22

if you think that kaido is a one note villain and that lucci is well thought out and developed you are purely nostalgia rose tinted glasses, recency bias driven

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u/TrickNatural Sep 26 '22

Sorry mate, dont know what to tell you, an assassin that goes undercover for 5 years and is presented to us as an ally is a much more compelling villain than generic barbarian-looking strongman dude that just wants a big war to die.

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u/bumboisamumbo Sep 27 '22

ok let’s frame it this way. what’s more interesting the strongest pirate in the world ruling over a once great nation brought to its knees for the past twenty years, or catman assassin dude who really wants a boat. it’s really preference, i like lucci as well but let’s not pretend you based anything off of any reason here besides you think one is cooler than the other. if want came out twenty years ago and lucci came out today you would cream your pants over kaido and shit on lucci for being boring with no backstory

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u/AllisonTheGreatOne Sep 26 '22

How can you love croc & Lucci but bash on Kaido for being a blend character with no depth 😭. Lucci literally has no real personality outside of killing people

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u/MAARP44 Sep 26 '22

He was a extremely underdeveloped disappointment, he wasn’t even awakened, his backstory was disappointing and a ripoff of Douglas Bullet, and the stupid Joy Boy gatekeeper thing drags him down

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u/ChilledPlasma Explorer Sep 26 '22

I agree

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u/Mugiwara300 Sep 26 '22

Have to disagree.

  • Doflamingo
  • Blackbeard
  • Crocodile
  • Akainu

Those are all antagonists better than Kaido already.

Kaido had a lot of potential to go down as one of the best, but Oda had to focus on way too many characters, plot lines, etc… during the Wano Arc that Kaido came off as flat.

How are you going to have a half a chapter backstory while your passing out and being sent flying into a hole?

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u/Boxsteam1279 Church of Buggy Sep 26 '22

There wasnt enough shown for me to agree with this statement. His backstory was meh, his current motivation is meh (since we just dont know really why he does what he does, other than muh joyboy and wanting to be king of the pirates.), but I will agree that Kaido does have one of the best fights with Luffy in OP so theres that lol

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u/Plzdntbanmee Sep 27 '22

Do flamingo, Blackbeard, Akainu, ARLONG….. fight me

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u/Yan-Ch Lurker Sep 27 '22

Spandam top 1

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u/duck_rush Sep 26 '22

Opening Wano’s borders was not the sensible choice(remember the WG war ships), given what we know about Pluton, it’s obvious that Wano’s borders will open in time for the final war.

out of character

No it wasn’t lmao

Just say you wish that a story beat happened cause you think it would be cooler, what’s all this bullshit of “out of character”, Momo spent so much of his time worrying about the ramifications of Opening Wano’s borders, he made a sensible choice given the caliber of threats they would inevitably deal with

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u/sadmanh Sep 27 '22

that's unpopular?!

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u/DeBlagJr Sep 26 '22

The only complaints i see on here is not being force fed information all at once about Kaido. When has Oda ever told us everything about a character even in a specific arc. We’ll most likely get further character motivations and context for Kaido. Im almost sure of it. It always happens. In a world of pirates, and Kaido seemingly sitting at the top of the current pirate world (pre wano of course) why does he necessarily need a reason to conquer or fight? We don’t need a full chapter explaining to us why he has a low regard for life. He used to be a fighting slave for the world’s “good guys.” Im sure we can fill in the blanks.

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u/kitay427 Cipher Pol Sep 26 '22

Past villains have been expanded upon more after their time was over, but none of them relied on that to become great villains. They were already great beforehand, and then they just got better. It's like adding toppings onto a well made pizza.

This, however, is not the case for Kaido. His "pizza" is undercooked to begin with, so the "toppings" just don't work. That's the problem I, and many others, have with him as a villain.

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u/XIMarleyIX Sep 26 '22

It's possible that Kaido will get some more development in the future and therefore will become more layered/interesting.

But tbf op was declaring him top 3 with what we have right now. And for many people right now Kaido isn't to compelling as a villain and/or character.

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u/ExtraNormie Sep 26 '22

It would’ve helped the battle tremendously to have some more characterization for Kaido before his defeat. YES we will get info on the God-Valley incident which seemed to be a major part of Kaido’s character, but it doesn’t accomplish much for Kaido in particular when he’s pretty much out of the story.

Besides, that wasn’t even my main issue with Kaido. He never once felt like an actual threat to Luffy or his crew post-act 1. He was more of an antagonist to the Scabbards than the Strawhats.

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u/bumboisamumbo Sep 26 '22

what?? he literally put luffy into the ground 4 times and you think he never felt like a threat to luffy?

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u/gmussi Sep 26 '22

I concur here. I knew for sure Luffy would defeat him without any casualties. I though only the scabbards would perish.

The only second i doubted this was with the interference of the cp0 agent, considering how unpredictable things get sometimes, but that only led to the Nika asspull, and back to certainty

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u/ExtraNormie Sep 26 '22

I mean yeah that was an exaggeration but compared to Croc and Lucci.. I mean not really. They felt like immovable objects that Luffy had no chance of getting past. Besides the ‘defeats’ which amounted to nothing but Luffy getting stronger, Kaido was just never framed to be such a threat. Lines thrown around the raid like ‘no way we will lose’ left and right really didn’t do him any favours. The only time the alliance felt the least bit of concern was after the CP0 intervention but that only lasted for about a chapter.

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u/bumboisamumbo Sep 27 '22

the straw hats have never thought they would lose. that’s the whole point. they all believe that luffy is going to be the pirate king. did you seriously think in alabasta that lufffy was just gonna roll over and die? literally there are moments in all of the arcs when times are hardest one if not more of the straw hats will always say that luffy will pull through

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u/HeyMr7777 Sep 26 '22

I agreed with everything up until the last paragraph. First off there were tons of people who thought that the raid would fail after Luffy got knocked out the first time. And even after that there were people hanging on til the end (rip Mr Morj). Other than that Luffy got defeated multiple times, it’s kinda weird to say that Kaido never felt like a threat

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u/ExtraNormie Sep 26 '22

A reason Morj thought the raid would fail, I’d argue the main one, was the lack of tension. Like yes, Kaido defeated Luffy multiple times(twice technically) the act 1 defeat sent him to udon where he got exponentially stronger. Moreover the defeat was played for a gag rather than a serious moment.

When Luffy was knocked into the sea, we didn’t see what happened and again, none of the supporting casts faith in him wavered.

Now the third defeat brought on by CP0 actually led to some good stuff but that only lasted for a chapter, and again, this defeat was more due to CP0 then Kaido as they had been framed to be fighting roughly equally before that clash.

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u/bumboisamumbo Sep 26 '22

the same people who jerk crocodile off for being the best villain are the ones who are complaining about not getting enough kaido backstory. it’s just about people wanting juicy juicy lore dumps to satisfy their own curiosity built in the last 20 years.

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u/gmussi Sep 26 '22

Croco and Doffy storylines were shown also from their perspective: who they are, what they want, what they are doing all the time, etc.

This lacked a lot with Kaido. He was just. Strong dude that Luffy defeated, we know nothing else…

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u/bumboisamumbo Sep 27 '22

crocodile never had backstory shown. it was implied that he got beaten by another pirate but we never see his backstory. most we get is a monologue about getting pluton. doesn’t mean he is bad villain, he was still cool as hell. point is you don’t need a backstory for a good villain

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u/AllisonTheGreatOne Sep 26 '22

How can people complain about Kaido being one note & a blend character but put croc & lucci in their top 5. Crocodile when alabasta was happening was nothing more that a literal mustache twirling Bond villian with as much nuance as a glass of milk. Most of the interesting bits about him as a character or person was revealed many years after Alabasta.

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u/SPS_Agent Sep 27 '22

I think what's compelling about Crocodile in Alabasta is his absolute confidence in his power among paradise rookies, his constant smashing of Vivi's ideals in a brutal and insightful way, and his measured demeanor coupled with his feverish ambition. He's menacing, overwhelming, and smack talks SO well. Like when the guards take the stimulating water. He just mocks them and denies them their chance to fight at all. Fabulous. You don't have to be nuanced and deep to be a fantastic antagonist.

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u/Mysterious_Field_998 Sep 26 '22

I think all the villains are banger, but one thing that really stood out to me is that he just wanted to be joy boy. That hit me hard. But boy was he determined as shit to meet him haha he enslaved a whole country. That’s compelling I think and puts him in my top. The guy is just a pure tragedy story. I though he was just gonna be a muscle head, but he had true depth and intellect.

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u/Schizochinia Sep 26 '22

The anime will flesh him out, but I can understand from the manga perspective why he’s lackluster.

But people saying we never understood his fascination with death, 1033 basically told us he’s depressed he’s the strongest and always will be until the very moment he dies.

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u/supersmall69 Sep 26 '22

This take is so bad bruh lol

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u/Turbo_Rat1997 Sep 27 '22

How is this an unpopular opinion lmao all criticisms I always see is hinged on Kaido not having that much back story and yet most of the best villains in One Piece don't have that much in-depth backstory (Crocodile, Enel, Lucci)

Ever since he got name-dropped in Punk Hazard, all of the build-up so far points to him. (S.A.D., Smile fruit, Wano, Momonosuke, Joker, Caesar Clown) He's been a menace since day 1 and througout Wano, we learn of his impact and fuel Luffy's motivation. Basically a parallel of Crocodile and Alabasta but more amped up.

If anything, its Big Mom's writing that was a disappointment.

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u/LordDShadowy53 Sep 27 '22

Wait whut legitimately is an unpopular opinion? I though that was basic knowledge of the manga. Wano was top tier One Piece content.

Just because Oda didn’t show his past doesn’t mean we are not going to see it later on. Either by another ex member of Rocks or on a cover story even.

Arlong got it like 500 chapters later.

Donflamingo got it on his arc but he was a recurrent character of the story at this point.

Crocodile didn’t even get it yet. We still don’t know his deal with Ivan-chan.

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u/mercuryheart_ Thriller Bark Victim's Association Sep 27 '22

Yeah it's definitely an unpopular opinion. I think manga readers get frustrated at the end of an arc and tend to see the bad sides more than the positives. I've seen a lot of people here complain about wano. Imo though it's up there as one of the best in the entire series

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2

u/gaymichael69xD Sep 27 '22

This. People will call Kaido trash for literally the dumbest shit, oh no his backstory wasn't as long as you wanted it to be!!! Despite the fact we learnt alot about Kaido in Oden's flashback, what Kaido said through-out fucking Wano and holy shit it's so glaringly obvious that we are going to get more of him in the fucking Rocks flashback goddammit. Big Mom also didn't have a very long flashback, we will learn about her more in the Rocks flashback, same with fucking Whitebeard! Who will also get more charactisation in the Rocks flashback! I stg people just straight up haven't read One Piece where Oda consistently will withhold information and reveal it later with a boat lot of other shit. Tbh twitter One Piece fans and Youtubers have done irreversible damage to the brains of many a one piece fans, people who literally cannot think for themselves lmfao

3

u/[deleted] Sep 26 '22

kuma was probably the best antagonist in the series, he destroyed the protaganists in thriller bark and left them near dead + he made the protagonists disappear during sabaody which shocked the entire fandom.

2

u/monkeest Sep 26 '22

I think that now is weird to see Kuma like and antognist. 15 years ago ok but with all the things we know now?

2

u/Ill_Procedure_8714 Sep 27 '22

Well he was on that point in the story and it was done Remarkably

2

u/[deleted] Sep 26 '22

[deleted]

3

u/HeyMr7777 Sep 26 '22

That’s a weird complaint to have imo, given that with what little characterization Kaido had, he was characterized as a scumbag.

2

u/SPS_Agent Sep 27 '22

Leads a regime to brutally sap the entire land and people of Wano to fund his maniacal war machine. Let's children die from starvation. Let's hordes of people eat Smiles leaving them unable to express their profound grief and tragic pain. Allows Orochi to run wild. Brutalizes and mistreats his child in horrific ways. Laughs in the face of honorable men, to break them and make them his loyal dogs. WANTS TO ANNIHILATE THE ENTIRE FLOWER CAPITAL (for no real reason).

I sleep

Doesn't honor a promise with perhaps his greatest enemy.

REAL SHIT?

Kaido is a monster, in morality and strength. He's a brutal, uncaring bastard with depressed ideals and a need to die in a glorious fight, dragging everyone and everything into his own anger and bloodlust. He's not a good guy. He's not honorable. Neither he nor Big Mom are even close to being honorable like some other One Piece villains that you can sort of respect. He's literally one of the worst people we've met in the series. It's fine that he's a piece of trash, personality wise. Thats what makes his strange affection and need to fight Joyboy and his interactions about Momo's lack of nobility so interesting. He torments an 8 year old boy as if he were an adult because he's bitter about his own boredom, and complete disregard for the feelings of others outside of the delight of beating down a strong opponent.

5

u/bumboisamumbo Sep 26 '22

he literally is a sad scumbag. he is an evil tyrant who wants to destroy the world because he is depressed. if you don’t like him because of that, it’s personal preference

1

u/wispymatrias Pirate Sep 26 '22

Not controversial or unpopular. Some very vocal miniorities.might disagree.