r/OnePiece Aug 22 '22 Wholesome 3 Silver 2 Helpful 4

Being brutally honest, what exactly was the purpose of this character in Wano? Discussion

Now that Wano is over, be brutally honest, what was Yamato's purpose in this arc if she isn't going to join? How much time was spent on this character during the raid that took away from other things?

I want to be clear, I like Yamato. Wanted her to join the crew, personally I thought that the Oni Princess stuff was clearly building up to fleshing her out in Elbaf. But now she's staying. So what exactly was her contribution to the Wano arc that we spent 80 chapters on her starting in the raid? Why did we take time away time from the Straw Hats and other more important characters to build her up and give her a flashback? And the most brutal question; what even changes if Yamato just never existed?

Seriously, the only thing Yamato really contributed to this arc was holding off Kaido for a bit when Luffy got knocked off the roof, right? Maybe I'm missing something, but that's the only thing I can possibly think of. Which certainly doesn't require 80 chapters of Oden impressions and backstories about Ace. It legitimately feels like Yamato's existence was just to sell merch and Oda was baiting and switching the fans to keep it going. Act 3 alone is legitimately one of the longest arcs in One Piece, and we spent about 30 percent of that on Yamato? Why? For what reason?

Like I said, I like Yamato. I'm fine with Yamato staying and would have been fine with Yamato joining. But to have Yamato's decision be offscreened after spending all this time on her, I feel like you have to ask why she even existed in the first place. Almost nothing about this arc changes if Yamato just does not exist at all.

The brutal truth - Yamato is the equivalent of the citizens of Dressrosa stalling Doffy for 10 minutes when Luffy ran out of Gear 4th. Only difference is she has side titties and an Ace cameo.

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u/Rabbitective Aug 22 '22 Silver Wholesome

to sell towels

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u/kitay427 Cipher Pol Aug 22 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

Goda foreskinned this in WCI when Luffy and Brook took a bath

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u/topdangle Aug 22 '22

probably the biggest foreskin since Shanks foreskinned CoC against the sea king

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u/imbeats Aug 22 '22

He forskinned clash of clans?

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u/Windoge10wow Aug 22 '22

foreskinned corruption of champions

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u/YOU_JUST_GOT_LOAFED Aug 22 '22

for skinned coc (cock)

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u/Det_Loki Aug 22 '22

Foreskinning is my favorite literary tool

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u/Strategicant5 Aug 22 '22

He… he what?

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u/Lesserd Pirate Aug 22 '22

There was a post on the sub a while back where the title misspelled "foreshadowed" as "foreskinned".

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u/kidmax27 Citizen Aug 23 '22

Misspelled?

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u/kitay427 Cipher Pol Aug 22 '22

He foreskinned 🥰

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u/darkknight_dan Aug 22 '22

Lol. I have been depressed for so. E time and haven't laughed this much.. He foreskinned! Hahaha

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u/w1czr1923 Aug 22 '22

probably body pillows too...

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u/Dry_Towelie Aug 22 '22

Don’t forget to bring a towel

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u/I_AmPotatoGirl Void Month Survivor Aug 22 '22

My thing with Yamato is that her character feels like it has no proper conclusion. You either want to be Oden and you go out on an adventure like he did. Or you drop the Oden gag and do the opposite of what he did, which is protect Wano. But the decision making is offscreened and even up to the end it's contradicting.

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u/Korr4K Aug 23 '22

This. One of the very best things that didn't work in Wano in clearly Yamato double, or even triple, identity. She calls and identify herself freely with whatever is more useful in that moment, which isn't how persons in her situation would do. For example when fighting Green Bull she presented herself as Kaido's son, but hadn't she made up her mind days ago about rejecting her father? It probably was just the easy way out for Oda to let the world know that Kaido has a son allied with Luffy, but clearly it takes away from her character personality

My idea is that Oda didn't really think much about her peculiar situation and just wanted to implement the trope "my son has adopted as role model my biggest enemy/rival"

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u/Idecent_Exposure Aug 22 '22

My biggest problem with her not joining the crew is the reason why she didn’t join. She says that “oden started off traveling around wano so she will too”. 1. Oden would have never passed up an opportunity to go out to sea. 2. The best part of odens journey was when he was traveling around on Rogers ship and learned about the void century. If you truly want to walk in his footstep then this is a once in a life time opportunity. They straw hats are about to go see exactly want oden saw and she is passing that up.

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u/Chommo Aug 22 '22

I guess because Oden embodied the best of Wano and Yamato hasn’t seen anything of it having been trapped inside onigashima since birth.

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u/CustosEcheveria Aug 22 '22

I guess because Oden embodied the best of Wano and Yamato hasn’t seen anything of it having been trapped inside onigashima since birth.

If anything should have been offscreened, Yamato wandering Wano was it. There was even a full week timeskip that they could have said she was out touring the countryside during.

I legitimately think this was a top level, last minute decision, where either Oda or maybe his editor said he needed to axe the character. It was pretty clear that she was joining, so the 180 was not planned IMO. Either the gender controversy or maybe someone simply decided that there wasn't enough time to round out an 11th crewmember between now and then ending - those would be my guesses.

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u/[deleted] Aug 22 '22

It does seem like when Oda took the month off to plan the end of One Piece he realized Yamato wasn't going to work as a crew member for whatever reason.

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u/RafaNoIkioi Aug 22 '22

He took the month off to finalize his imagining of the end of one piece, and I'm guessing he either realized he needed her in a later part to randomly show up, or that she wouldn't fit in the crew for whatever reason.

He has something planned for wano later on and I'm guessing he realized she would be better utilized by staying in wano. Definitely feels like a last minute change. She just never had enough character development in any aspect whatsoever, so I wasn't for her joining, but not joining also makes her look like completely wasted panel time.

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u/stormdressed Aug 23 '22

It drives me nuts that Wano is left on such a cliffhanger. All that build up to opening up the country, seeing Zunesha, the cracks forming in the walls etc and we've left without seeing it. As readers we know it will happen in the future but we're here now! Let's just finish it instead of doubling back.

On your point, Yamato might be our viewpoint character for the walls breaking or Pluton surfacing. Same as Vivi was a viewpoint in Reverie.

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u/One_Tie900 Aug 22 '22

I agree, it was written and setup poorly. One chapter she is ready next she just says a brief line. I think she will meetup with them later for certain after leaving Wano

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u/Grey_wolf_whenever Aug 22 '22

imo it feels very on brand for a powerful girl character to just not join

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u/Oopsifartedsorry Aug 22 '22

True. she would’ve been nerfed heavily just so she doesn’t take away from the dynamic trio. They did it nico and franky even though they were very strong when they were introduced

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u/WelchCLAN Aug 23 '22

And brook.

I think part of it is those 'older' characters you meet in rpg/anime/team builder scenarios is that they are super powerful at first!... But never progress much because otherwise they outshine the main team. So higher floor, but lower ceiling

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u/schiffb558 Aug 23 '22

I dunno, Jimbei seems to fit that mold pretty well.

He's mastered the Fishman Karate style, he's got crazy Haki powers...what's next for him? I don't see it being that much.

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u/Fun_Tear1722 Aug 23 '22

Lol when was Brook ever displayed as being super powerful? Even in his intro arc he was not impressive in terms of combat. He was completely helpless against zombie ryuma who wasnt even using his full power

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u/UnquestionabIe Aug 23 '22

Robin has always been an outlier since introduction given her devil fruit power makes the majority of fights an instant win or a loss depending on the strength of an opponent. Oda could be more creative to account for that but given how many easier to write for combat ready characters there are I can understand. Also she's only had less than a handful of fights in the time she's been in the crew (which is something like 20 years at this point, damn).

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u/ExceedsTheCharacterL Aug 22 '22

Oda is pretty obsessed with Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji being the strongest in that order. That may be it

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u/SelitosOne-Eye Aug 22 '22

The whole Oden thing is just weird. It be fine if she wanted to have Oden’s values/interests and she used those values to help her make he own decisions in life because she never had a good role model. But that’s not it, she literally wants TO BE Oden, she wants to recreate his life step by step. She wants to go through this weird charade where she acts like Momo is her son. Is she going to recreate the Harem War just because Oden did? It would be so much better if she said Oden going out to see was ultimately a mistake because he abandoned his responsibilities, so I’m going to stay on Wano and protect it because that’s what Oden should have done. But no, her reason was that she hasn’t perfectly copied Oden yet.

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u/behindyourknees Aug 22 '22

The weirdest thing to me about her wanting to be Oden is that’s the opposite of what Odens values are.

Oden wanted to be himself, he wanted to figure out who he was, and see the world for himself and not just read about it in books or hear it from others.

If oden meet someone who was living there entire life trying to be someone else, he would call them a loser and say they are basically wasting there life. Oden would hate Yamato, he would tell her that she is completely misinterpreting his life. He would tell her go figure out who Yamato is and stop pretending to be anyone else.

Yamato wanting to be Oden and embody his values doesn’t work, because trying to become someone else is the opposite of who Oden really is.

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u/NinetyFish Aug 22 '22

Oden would give Yamato the same disgusted look that Whitebeard gave Oden lmao

I really didn't like the reasoning for why Yamato stuck behind. On top of the frustration of Yamato not joining in general, having them stay behind just to further roleplay as Oden is so bad. Literally the last thing we see Yamato do in the chapter is pretend to be Oden again and undercut the genuine Momo/Kinemon moment with an Oden-joke.

There could have been a strong character moment where Yamato tells the Straw Hats that they're going to travel Wano for a while and find their own identity now that they don't have to be "Kaido's son" anymore and have realized that they don't need to be "Oden" as an act of rebellion.

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u/behindyourknees Aug 22 '22

Personally I don’t think her character should exist if she’s not joining the crew permanently. Giving her the Vivi treatment feels so redundant, we already have the honorary member in Vivi that couldn’t join because of other obligations. Her screen time could have been given to other characters.

She feels like a weird OC character a fan of the series would make.

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u/NinetyFish Aug 22 '22

She really does, lol.

Just randomly give Kaido a child who conveniently met Ace and has a special connection to Oden, who was saved by three samurai sacrificing themselves for her for an edgy backstory, is super strong with access to a top-tier level skill Luffy only just learns in the same arc, everyone likes and respects them, comes out of nowhere and bends the plot around them, unique design, special powerset with unique abilities, etc.

Yamato really does feel like a self-insert power fantasy fanfiction character. Executed well, sure, and has potential as a member of the crew to shake things up and even out the crew dynamics, but if they don't join the crew, Yamato's entire existence feels like a non-sequitur for the Wano saga.

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u/behindyourknees Aug 22 '22

Short of having a D in her name she checks all the boxes of the OCs I see people make.

Super OP despite no training or experience. Tragic backstory. Relations with popular characters. OP DF. Carbon copy of an existing characters motives. Wants to join the SHs despite not having a real reason to do so other than thinking there cool.

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u/Rtyfyh1 Aug 22 '22

I wish I could give you a million upvotes for summing up my issue with yamato so clearly

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u/UnquestionabIe Aug 23 '22

Been trying to pin down why I dislike her and this pinned it down perfectly. She's basically a fangirl who has gone way too far down the rabbit hole, to the point where her actions practically mock the person she most admires. It was funny for a handful of chapters but it definitely hit the point where it's clear there wasn't much of any plan for her during the recent arc.

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u/behindyourknees Aug 23 '22

I get that that her being Oden is her shtick, but the gag got old pretty quick and she hops in and out of it whenever it’s convenient.

Like if she hasn’t figured out she is who Oden would hate, how many more panels is it going to take.

I feel like Oda came up with her character and half way though realized she’s not as interesting or unique he originally thought. I’m almost certain he originally planned for her to be a crew mate, but somewhere along the line decided he didn’t want to do that anymore. And that’s why we went from one chapter she was hell bent on going out to sea to a off screen Epiphany that she no longer wants to.

One chapter she is Oden, the next she is Kaidos son. Her character doesn’t feel more fleshed out than Rebecca, or Pudding, or carrot. Yet she got a ton of screen time and plot relevance since her introduction 80 chapters ago.

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u/electricmastro Aug 22 '22

Yeah, despite everything that was said, I still fail to see what exactly Yamato is getting out of it.

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u/Trumpologist Aug 22 '22

Also who the hell turns Luffy down? Luffy told her he would come get her any time she wants to join?!

WTF

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u/[deleted] Aug 22 '22 edited Sep 19 '22

[deleted]

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u/CaptSomeguy1 Aug 23 '22

True, but Jinbei had responsibilities to take care of. If Big Mom wasn't an issue, he would have joined right away. Yamato, on the other hand, turned down Luffy, because she wanted to follow Oden's footsteps and tour Wano....? What? Oden tried (and failed) 38 times to leave Wano before he was 18....He was practically begging to leave Wano before adulthood. Yamato's reason just feels like Oda changed his mind on a whim and lazy writing.

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u/kosakidera4eva Aug 22 '22

This is a big reach from me:

The only reason yamato stayed is so that she can become her own character and not oden ( even though that's her whole thing ) , as you've said jn your first point she's doing exactly what oden wouldn't , and pass up an opportunity to go to sea and that could be oda's way of making her a different character.

Im so confused as to why she stayed and am huffing major copium to make sense of it.

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u/Insertblamehere Aug 22 '22

Except her stated reason is that she's doing it to copy oden even harder, not to become her own person.

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u/kosakidera4eva Aug 22 '22

exactly why i said it's a big big big big big reach , i am honestly baffled about it and i hope it gets expounded on in the future.

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u/Bully_Maguire420 Aug 23 '22

It's not even a reach, the story itself flat out confirms this isn't the case, she's only staying behind to become Oden even further.

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u/leopold_roger Void Month Survivor Aug 22 '22

She should have worded it like that then. I was always a fan of Yamato leaving the Oden obsession behind and starting to be her own self, and this was the PERFECT opportunity for her to realise this and stay in Wano on her own accord.

However, she is still talking about Oden and now it doesn't even make sense. Maybe she will have realised this whenever she comes back in the future, but like I said this was the perfect opportunity for that and oda missed it.

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u/Apprehensive_Pen6829 Aug 22 '22

I really liked Yamato, because I was expecting her character arc to be finding her own identity instead of imitating Oden.

Now that she won't join and Oda continued her Oden-imitation until her final scene, she's mediocre imo. She was cool and funny and had a cool dynamic with some characters, but her potential was wasted.

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u/th3virtuos0 Aug 23 '22

It would have been goated too see a female crew who has starry eyes in front of Franky’s mech

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u/hitotoshitehazukashi Aug 23 '22

She should've straight go boil herself if she keep imitate oden.

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u/Grevoron The Revolutionary Army Aug 23 '22

I agree with this. She's so unimpressed with herself that she has to pretend to be someone else that is completely unnecessary anymore. We already have Sukiyaki to take Momo in for knowledge and the entire Scabbard to train his combat skills. Oden was grieved and people are moving on from his passing. She's only making things insulting and difficult.

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u/rmunoz1994 Aug 22 '22

I’d argue that 25+ chapters of wano could be cut if Oda didn’t focus on pointless characters.

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u/MettaurSp Aug 22 '22

My hope is that with the end of the saga we can finally have a reset in the pacing and scope to get more focus on the straw hats.

The past few arcs feel like they've been straying too far from the crew interactions that made One Piece what it is for me by focusing too much on characters I didn't care about.

It also feels like there has been too much scope creep on fights where they take longer and longer for no real pay off. There were a lot of scenes that could be counted as filler that I really liked, but there were also a lot of moments where I would rather have the story move along, or moments that were cut and off screened that I felt were too important for that.

Fights and story sections shouldn't be longer for the sake of being longer, or to try fit expectations of some grand battle. It reduces the impact of the sections that matter by draining energy, taking wind out of the sails before they have a chance to shine.

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u/NinetyFish Aug 22 '22

I love Oda's world-building, but I agree, I hope the next arc is strictly Straw Hat focused. They really need more focus and screentime, and the manga could use a smaller-scale arc way more than it needs another huge war, especially with the endgame coming soon. Oda's going to be rushed in the end as well, it's looking more doubtful that each Straw Hat will get their due screentime due to how many moving parts Oda has, so we really need a New World arc that is purely just Straw Hats facing down some challenge together.

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u/Leftieswillrule Aug 23 '22

I hope the next arc is strictly Straw Hat focused

I think it will organically. We've only been in Wano for 4 years but we've been in Wano's storyline for 10 years. Kin and Momo being with the crew and the alliance with Law are all long-running threads that have finally been tied up. The last time the strawhats were all together on their ship without Carrot or Caesar or some other tag-along was more than a decade ago if I'm not missing anything.

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u/Serious_Much Aug 22 '22

The moment the manga switched from ambiguous power and ingenuity based fights to traditional "power level" power scaling with haki the manga as a whole suffered.

Every shonen falls for this shit, and it never ends well.

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u/schiffb558 Aug 23 '22

I really did like the Kid & Law vs Big Mom fight for turning the whole "Haki trumps all" concept on its head, that was really refreshing to see.

But yeah, Haki being what it is really does dampen the rest of the series. Either you're god tier with it, or you're really not.

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u/MettaurSp Aug 22 '22

The issue I have isn't really power level or power creep though. It's more about the portrayal and expectations around it.

It's about how many fake outs there are with losses or artificial struggle that doesn't move the plot.

It's about the expectation that fights should take x number of chapters or that it should last a specific amount of time because Oda arbitrarily threw out a 5 day number for a different fight in the past.

It's about how many named subordinates or factions of subordinates keep being added that take up panel time, but don't contribute to the plot.

You don't need any of these to make a compelling plot, and I'd argue in a lot of cases they make it worse.

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u/Revoldt Aug 22 '22

Lol thats true of every arc…

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u/rmunoz1994 Aug 22 '22

More or less, but Wano was particularly bad. Dressrosa too.

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u/olivervaa Aug 22 '22

Except Water 7 and Sabaody

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u/blitzlurker Aug 22 '22

water 7 holds a special place in my heart

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u/Jicier Aug 22 '22

Being brutally honest, we don't know yet, and I'm not talking about if she joins or not, I'm talking about the purpose as a character.

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u/Tiny-Veterinarian-79 Aug 22 '22

One Piece has a lot to do with inherited wills vs lineage and nature vs nuture in terms of character identity. Yamato being Kaido's kid yet adopting Oden's will over her father's is a testament to two things: Times changing, and Kaido's failure.

WCI also highlighted children like Praline, Lola, Chiffon who all turned their backs on the family that abused them for their own happiness. You also had the contrast of Sanji not abandoning the family that abused him to death, despite them doing it to him. Katakuri even seems to show a different attitude through fighting Luffy.

BM and Kaido failed as pirates chasing One Piece because of their attitudes and became gatekeepers. Their children showing signs of attitude shifts is reflective of a new generation taking shape. While its disappointing Yamato hasn't officially joined, she still serves a purpose as a potential new beginning for the Beast Pirates.

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u/lossass Aug 22 '22

That's a great interpretation and a cool story but sadly it's not what Oda wrote. If we had seen a single comment from Yamato regarding the Beast Pirates or reflecting on his father's failure it'd be one thing.

But all of Yamato's character development seems to have been offscreen after the Greenbull fight

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u/EiichiroTarantino Aug 22 '22

Overall I get what you're saying and I agree but

a potential new beginning for the Beast Pirates.

Fuck the Beast Pirates. They're all complicit, they tortured and sold Wano people. Not one of them shows any positive character. Unlike the Charlotte family who actually govern Totto Land and get along with the people.

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u/NinetyFish Aug 22 '22

Totally, yeah, but that just continues the cycle of hate. One Piece arc ends are typically wholesome, idealistic, and optimistic. Could have easily had shots of some of the Beast Pirates helping to rebuild Wano and apologizing for their crimes. Maybe even show some Wano civilians scared to work alongside them, but show Momo or the Scabbards extending the olive branch of peace and leading the way for a better future for Wano.

That's closer to the themes of One Piece that I know and love. One Piece has always been an idealistic story, not a vindictive one.

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u/milkyjoe241 Aug 22 '22

Yamato being Kaido's kid yet adopting Oden's will over her father's is a testament to two things: Times changing, and Kaido's failure.

The problem is from the start of seeing him, Oden never showed interest in exploring Wano before leaving, he always thought the island was too small for him and wanted to see the larger world. Staying in Wano is not being Oden.

While its disappointing Yamato hasn't officially joined, she still serves a purpose as a potential new beginning for the Beast Pirates.

I don't see this at all. Why would she take over the Beast Pirates, why would they need redeeming/remaking? The only "good" one, Speed, already left to help Tama. The rest aren't good people that will just follow Yamato because of inheritance, the idea of the beast pirates was that the strongest earns their titles.

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u/CarcosanAnarchist Aug 22 '22

We met Oden after he had explored all of Wano, hence why “it’s too cramped”

Yamato’s whole world has been Onigashima, they want to get to know Wano before leaving.

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u/DONQUIIIXOTE The Revolutionary Army Aug 22 '22

Except that this hasn’t happened yet. She didn’t galvanize a group of beast pirates during the war. But wano is over. Maybe there’s a future potential for this but I think it hasn’t even been hinted at. Katakuri showed this potential that you speak of though.

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u/nord65 Aug 22 '22

Plus Green bull destroyed the beast pirates so even that doesn’t make sense.

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u/dracon81 Aug 22 '22

I mean to be fair, he is an Admiral. We've seen how powerful all of them really are. Like he may not be on aokiji or akainus level but he is still pretty strong. Combined with the fact that that the beast pirates just suffered a pretty brutal defeat, lost their leader, and lost pretty much everything they had worked for for the last like 20 years, I feel this isn't that ridiculous. It's also a good way to show off how far everyone has really come.

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u/nord65 Aug 22 '22

Oo I know that I’m not putting down Green bull I’m saying Yamato can’t be a new beginning for them because they’re gone.

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u/blue-yeen Aug 22 '22

Lol they're def not gone he did the same thing to shinobu and raizo and they're big chillin

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u/najy1997 Aug 22 '22

Green bull called for a ship for at least king and queen

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u/Felipesantoro Aug 22 '22

I didn't think about that, but now Queen will probably be very popular with the girls

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u/ExceedsTheCharacterL Aug 22 '22

I can see some redemption for King but Queen and Jack are scumbags. Why would she want to be their captain?

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u/WackHashslinger Aug 22 '22

yamato is the prime example of how much the next generation meant in this arc, not only to mirror that of big mom's crew but the literal passing of the torch.

when the new generation overcame the old surpassing all expectations, yamato was ushering it into fruition before it even happened. waiting for luffy and acting as a surprise player of the raid.

yamato's one and biggest character flaw is his overeliance on the old generation. oden made his point upon the citizens of wano and yet yamato still believes his position is to be him and to carry on his will. it makes no sense for yamato to set out on a journey that isn't his. a big part of one piece is about inherited will but yamato is just flat out copying his childhood hero. though, that might be a result of her poor parenting.

regardless i'm glad yamato is opting to go on a more personal journey because yamato is not oden and luffy is not roger

i hope this plot point is brought up again either directly or indirectly with the reintroduction of shanks in the present storyline... or maybe even with blackbeard: the man luffy is destined to face.

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u/Toothless1886 Aug 22 '22

I like Yamato and it’ll be cool if they end up fighting alongside the Strawhats in the future but my issue with her really only comes from the fact she got a very extensive backstory between her childhood and relationship with Ace meanwhile Kaido had 3 pages.

I can give Oda benefit of the doubt, maybe things were omitted for a future reveal, maybe Yamato will become a necessary ally in the future, etc. I still look at Wano as a 8/10 arc but if Yamato isn’t really involved in the story going forward I don’t see the benefit of sacrificing necessary details for a one off character.

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u/tetochaan Aug 22 '22

This might age like milk but I don't think we're entirely done with Kaido's backstory. I mean he was part of the strongest pirate crew ever and that entire thing might be saved up for later.

maybe Yamato will become a necessary ally in the future, etc.

I also think/hope that. I doubt this is just the end of her character. I really hope it isn't. She has an insanely cool devil fruit power and one of the most interesting and unique character designs. Just like Vivi has become important again, I think/hope Yamato will be used later and Oda didn't make her join the Strawhats because it'd interfere with something else he's trying to set up.

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u/newbphil Aug 22 '22 edited Aug 22 '22

You're definitely right, but I cannot put into words how much I hate how Kaido and his backstory was handled; got set up with these super interesting idiosyncrasies that needed to be addressed in order to flesh his character out and make him a truly compelling villain (why is he such a drunk? why does he want to die? etc.), but now we are supposed to wait for the Rocks flashback in order to get that fleshing-out. His character in the context of this arc will forever be lukewarm because Oda apparently couldn't find a way to make him more compelling without dropping lore that he doesn't want to drop yet. Sorry but that shit is lame as fuck, we are literally around 90% done with OP, how many more things does Oda intend to put on the "you need to wait" list? This would have been a perfectly fine moment to drop some Rocks lore (doesn't even need to be everything! just flesh out Kaido ffs), maybe with some missing context to keep it interesting and to keep readers wondering wtf just happened and why.

Idk, Oda is so good at creating compelling villains, it truly baffles me that he dropped the ball so hard with Kaido within the arc that he is the main villain of. Once the Rocks/ Kaido lore is dropped and we gain that much-needed information on his character, it still won't make his role in Wano any better on a first read, his character depth in his arc will forever be shallow. I love Kaido, which is why it's so frustrating to me that we didn't get the info we desperately needed in order to make him a top 3 villain of the series.

This is tangentially related but I'm rambling anyways; another thing is with Yamato being an "Oni Princess". WTF? Do we all understand the implications of that shit? Why was this not addressed?! SURELY not every single piece of god damn interesting lore connected to these characters is a Rocks spoiler, this shit drives me up the wall. Absolutely should have been addressed, and I have a sneaking suspicion that this will join the long list of plotpoints from Wano that is just never going to be mentioned again. So frustrating.

Sorry, /endrant

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u/tetochaan Aug 22 '22

why is he such a drunk? why does he want to die?

Ever since Big Mom rejected Kaido's advances during their time together as the Rocks pirates, he's never been the same again. /s

But seriously, I totally get that. I am just stuck wishfully thinking and hoping we'll get more info on Kaido as a person. I mean Doffy was so menacing and a compelling villain because we saw what fucked up shit he did prior to Dressrosa (doesn't get more evil than killing your own father because you're upset he left a slave owning leadership position).

We really needed something similar with Kaido. As of now he's evil just because. Doffy was evil because he was born into a family and world of arrogant, selfish assholes and grew up as one - and after losing his mother there was nothing holding him back.

What drove Kaido to this point? Oh, he's evil because he's really strong (?). Even Big Mom got that insane (cannibal) story arc with Mother Caramel and thanks to that we know Streusen was a big driving factor behind her rise. Heck, even Katakuri got a good bit of story for himself that helps us understand his actions. And that's just the most recent villains. This arc was supposed (or expected) to give all kinds of revelations about Kaido - not even during his time with the Rocks pirates.

I totally get why you're disappointed. Let's just hope we'll get our answers soon enough.

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u/Brave_Traveller_89 Aug 22 '22

Agreed.

The first bit of characterization Kaido got, IIRC, was his attempted suicided from jumping from... Skypeia, I guess? Then, it was mentioned how many times and in how many ways people tried and failed to execute him. So, his death wish and his immortality were both big deals at first. Neither were dealt with in this arc.

I mean, seriously. We kinda know Kaido wants to die because the world is boring, but it is weird how this isn't explored in Wano. Also, it strikes me as odd that this is his whole reason to attempt suicide, yet, he doesn't actively seek difficult fights. He reaches a ceasefire with Big Mom and he backed down from the Summit War because of Shanks. Why? My best guess is he doesn't want to end up killing someone who could beat him. He is terrified of fighting the person who can give him the battle he's aching for, because if that person dies, he has even less to live for. It's a cool duality, but that's my interpretation. Isn't it?

And why can't he die? I guess it's because of Haki, and he died to Luffy because his Haki was finally overwhelmed. But this is all implied, and not at focus. I don't mind it not being spelled out to me, even if I have to look for interpretations I couldn't reach, but I don't think Wano CARED for those aspects of Kaido at all.

Also, if dying and immortality were such huge deals to Kaido as a character... shouldn't it be in the forefront of his defeat? As lame as that might have been, I fully expected Kaido, in a weakened state, to die in order to get the Marines away from Wano, not because he cares about the country or Luffy, but because he KNOWS Luffy has the potential to bring about a war that will shake the world to the very core, and he'd rather die to garantee it happens than to live and maybe not see it.

While I wrote this, it made me sadder on how Kaido was first introduced as such a interesting character, but that seemed to be shoved aside because of Rocks. I mean, I guess much of Kaido's relationship with death can be resolved in Rocks flashbacks, but it seems a bit nonsensical. Wano was the arc to flesh out the most important bits of Kaido. Whatever we learn from him after that will be sidelined by more relevant Rocks lore.

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u/TallFutureLawyer Aug 23 '22

Meant to make a post about this back in the Void Month but didn’t get around to it. I interpret Kaido partly as a foil for Roger. A kind anti-Roger if you will.

Roger: Faced the literal impossibility of achieving all of his dreams, and his will still didn’t break. He turned his attention to the next generation, made sure to pass on that will, and went out on his own terms.

Kaido: Something happened in the past (and no, I don’t like that we still don’t know what), and it broke him. No one is inheriting his will, and it’s not clear that he had much to pass on anyway. And, at the same time, he was stuck in his spot as an Emperor, unable to move on (which is where the apparent inability to die comes in).

As usual with these characters, some of that characterization of Kaido might also fit Big Mom.

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u/HokageEzio Aug 22 '22

That's true too, Yamato's screentime cannibalized so much of the arc that it even cannibalized the arc villain.

I loved the Ace flashback, but not at the cost of all of these other moments if she's essentially just going to be a random Grand Fleet member.

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u/Kenny_Brahms Aug 22 '22

I'm fairly certain Oda is withholding a major part of kaido's backstory because he doesn't want to reveal what happened in god valley just yet. It's kinda dumb, but it is what it is.

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u/velicinanijebitna Aug 22 '22 Silver

She has the same role as Vivi/Shirahoshi/Rebecca:

1.She is hot/beatiful.

2.She wants to help citizens of her country who are in pain from a tyrant when Strawhats arrive.

3.Royal blodline. (Kinda).

4.She gets along with Strawhats well, especially Luffy.

5.At the end of the arc, she gets teased to join the crew, but eventually backs down because X reasons related to her country. There is however, a promise that she will meet Luffy/strawhats again and that they'll go on a adventure together.

It is what it is.

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u/djinn_tai Aug 22 '22

NO, Momo was the princess of this arc.

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u/Beloberto Aug 22 '22

The big difference is what OP asked: “what changes in Wano if you remove Yamato?”

Remove Rebecca and you greatly hurt Luffy’s motivation to save Dressrosa and the whole Kyros plotline. Remove Shirahoshi and the arc falls apart. Remove Vivi and Alabasta arc doesn’t even happen.

They are not simply princesses to be saved, they are catalysts for the events in their arcs to unfold.

But If you remove Yamato, nothing changes except Yamato own scenes.

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u/NinetyFish Aug 22 '22 edited Aug 22 '22

What's wild to me is that the very existence of Yamato is revealed after the raid has even started and we don't even meet Yamato until the raid is firmly underway!

Yamato literally came out of nowhere in the middle of the big climatic raid that was paying off years and years of set-up from Wano itself and other islands!

Fucking wild. Remove all context and everything we know about the characters. Going into the raid, did anyone imagine we'd be meeting an entirely brand new character during the raid, have them take up a lot of spotlight during the raid itself, and then just have them stay behind on Wano post-raid without ever changing anything other than screentime and a short Kaido fight that other characters could have filled in for*?

No one would have predicted that, simply because it's poor storytelling to add unnecessary details into an already crowded narrative.

Before anyone tries to @ me about how strong Yamato is and how they know CoC coating or whatever, sure, no problem. But Oda chose to write it that well. Oda could have easily done an Oars-level team fight with all the allied fighters instead where everyone works together to barely hold back Kaido in time for Luffy's return, but he instead chose to give that role to Yamato and have everyone else just kinda fuck around stopping fires and stuff.

*edit: typo, "that way"

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u/Rankine Aug 23 '22

Yamato coming out of no where was always my biggest issue with the character.

Even a couple of throw away lines in act 1 or act 2 would have created intrigue around kaido’s son.

We would be thinking that this was some other monster that the SH would need to fight and then it would be a cool reveal when they were actually on the side of the SH.

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u/JohnnySmallHands Aug 23 '22

Oda could have easily done an Oars-level team fight with all the allied fighters instead where everyone works together to barely hold back Kaido in time for Luffy's return

awwww now I want that :(

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u/NinetyFish Aug 23 '22

I know, right? The Oars fight is still one of the most fun moments in One Piece. So fun to see all the Straw Hats working together, but it still manages to be tense the entire time too because it feels like a desperate struggle to survive against Oars. Like the desperate struggle to survive against Kaido could have been. :(

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u/garfe Aug 23 '22

That's what I thought was going to happen because it would make sense going against a big super strong mofo Yonko would have to require a group effort if Luffy wasn't around but that just...didn't happen

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u/Aazadan Aug 23 '22

Yep. For as much as I like Yamato, she did a ton of damage to the narrative for the rest of the Straw Hats. It would have been ok had she joined, but in retrospect it's all just odd.

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u/stormdressed Aug 23 '22

Imagine all her panels going to actual strawhats... Same with Marco's though his were far fewer

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u/Dillo64 Thriller Bark Victim's Association Aug 22 '22

True. Like imagine removing Brook from the story. Thriller Bark doesn’t really change much. The pay off was we got Brook, who was awesome. There’s no payoff for Yamato, except maybe getting some 11th hour additional fighter in the final chapters.

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u/[deleted] Aug 23 '22

[deleted]

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u/JohnnySmallHands Aug 23 '22

I think his point is micro vs macro interactions. Brook saving people and having special knowledge could aren't overarching important story elements. He didn't drive character motivation like Shirahoshi or Rebecca did. In terms of importance to the arc's plotline Brook and Yamato are a reasonable comparison. Neither was necessary for the arc to happen but they're are/would have been a welcome participant and addition to the crew.

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u/NinetyFish Aug 22 '22

getting some 11th hour additional fighter in the final chapters.

Which we didn't even need!

Sure, someday I'll be happy to see Yamato show up leading some reinforcements.

But I could have been equally happy to see Kinemon or Momo show up leading a bunch of samurai as well.

It's a pet peeve of mine when people argue that the purpose of Yamato is for them to led the Wano-part of the Grand Fleet in the final battle. It's like, we spent like a decade hanging out with Kinemon and Momo and much more of the Wano saga meeting the Scabbards, they're a better candidate for that than Yamato anyways, who we literally met mid-raid!

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u/Affectionate-Room359 Aug 22 '22

Shirahoshi and Rebecca were never teased to go eith the straw hats, lol. Where should Shira even live? They could abandon the Sunny and mount her, lol.

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u/Dillo64 Thriller Bark Victim's Association Aug 22 '22

Her role on the crew would be “second ship”

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u/drfuzzyballzz Aug 22 '22

Big tiddy mermaid to go along with our evil water imp , marimo , pervert, assassin, thief, and let's not forget emergency food / 7 transformation reindeer

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u/Toji_Fush1guro Aug 22 '22

I would argue Momo fits that role a lot more than Yamato does

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u/Sun-God-Nika Aug 22 '22

Momo is hot and beautiful

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u/kokomonono Aug 23 '22

You tell me aged up Momo isn't hot with a straight face. I dare you.

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u/crysomore Bounty Hunter Aug 23 '22

Last I checked he's mentally 8

FBI OPEN UP

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u/jjkm7 Aug 22 '22

Aside from point number 1 this entire list of points is fulfilled by momo much better than her. Momo is literally just male vivi

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u/IamFlapJack Aug 22 '22

Momo is the "princess" of the arc, not Yamato

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u/Cathal_Ashenhand Aug 22 '22

Wait--does that make Yamato Karue?

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u/IamFlapJack Aug 22 '22

.....yes

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u/meanoron Aug 23 '22

Karue

no, Kinemon is clearly the Karoo of Wano

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u/TheGreatPervSage_94 Thriller Bark Victim's Association Aug 22 '22

Yama also saves the hero after the fight

Like how Luffy caught Vivi

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u/Throwawayr4rrrrrr Aug 22 '22

Such a save! She stopped a rubber man from hitting the floor! Saved!!

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u/jose3013 Aug 23 '22

Bruh that was my only thought in that scene 🤣

"Was I supposed to be worried by Luffy hitting the ground 😐"

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u/Weakf1sh Aug 22 '22

Princesses saved by the hero in all variations lol.

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u/EiichiroTarantino Aug 22 '22

That is all Momo. Not Yamato. Momo fulfilled that role.

I already said this in another comment, but Yamato is appropriately more like Franky but if Franky was introduced in Enies Lobby instead of Water 7. Out of nowhere, no hints whatsoever, this cyborg guy appeared in Enies Lobby, became a huge part of the arc, and even helped the Straw Hats fighting the CP9. The fandom got into huge discussion about him being the most obvious nakama candidate, but in the end, Franky just stayed in Water 7. I hope now you can see just how weird that would be.

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u/MxKarlaMarxxx Aug 22 '22

I would argue that Yamato is more like Kyros or Pell than Rebecca or Vivi.

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u/EiichiroTarantino Aug 22 '22

Pell, not so much, he's a side character. Not really focused on.

Kyros, I somewhat agree. But still, he appeared throughout Dressrosa from the beginning as the Toy Soldier so at least we're still familiar with his presence. He also never really took over the arc focus. On the other hand, Yamato literally only started to exist in the Third Act of Wano and immediately got quite a huge spotlight on her.

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u/SweatyAdhesive Aug 22 '22

Though Kyros never proclaimed that he will join the SH and no one in their right mind thought he would join after the arc.

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u/Dillo64 Thriller Bark Victim's Association Aug 22 '22

Neither of them were purported to join the crew from their introduction.

If anyone, Yamato is like Brook. First thing we are told is that this weird dude is joining the crew. But then we learn they can’t join right away because problems. We also learn this new guy has connections to someone meaningful to the straw hats(Laboon/Ace). Luffy then goes and punches the problems really hard until they go away, over the course of one arc, and then they character joins for real.

Except Yamato didn’t join in the end. Which is weird and dumb.

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u/velicinanijebitna Aug 22 '22

If anyone, Yamato is like Brook

Except Brook was aked to join by Luffy right of the bat, while Yamato declalred she will join because she said so - no question asked. Completely opposite. Also, notice how persistant Luffy was when he wanted to recruit his crewmates, like Chopper or Nami...Does he look like he gives a damn for Yamato not joining? I don't think he even called her by the name at all.

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u/SacoNegr0 Cipher Pol Aug 23 '22

while Yamato declalred she will join because she said so - no question asked

So did Robin, he doesn't need to ask for someone to join

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u/Environmental-Kiwi78 Aug 22 '22

Franky decided that he wanted to build an extra railroad station before pursuing his dream of building the pirate king’s ship.

Makes total sense

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u/SnooAdvice1632 Void Month Survivor Aug 22 '22

Nah, vivi's main purpose was different (saving her own people) and she grew as a person during the arc. Way more useful imo

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u/I_AmPotatoGirl Void Month Survivor Aug 22 '22

Only difference is that Vivi, Shirahoshi, Rebecca all went through some kind of development and has a conclusion by the end of their arcs. Yamato is literally the same from the beginning to now.

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u/Dillo64 Thriller Bark Victim's Association Aug 22 '22

Nuh uh. Yamato is different now. There’s no shackles on the arms now, see? ⛓

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u/Crovanti Aug 22 '22

I don’t agree with Yamato being another Vivi/Shirahoshi/Rebecca. Those other characters had character arcs in their respective stories and played a role in Luffy’s motivation to defeat the arc villian. By comparison Yamato was sort of just there. The role those other princesses played was already filled by Momo and Tama. Especially Vivi, she played a much bigger role in Alabasta and it’s clear that her and Shirahoshi (and hopefully Yamato) still have more to contribute to the story as a whole.

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u/R4ndomCharacter Aug 22 '22

No. Unlike those 3, Yamato have basically zero ties with the people of Wano, regardless if you think she should be the one justifying her father's actions. Those 3 actually have responsibility and a title in their country. Yamato? She have none of that. The only thing that is even worth considering is her obsession for Oden, which also doesn't make sense since Oden was basically sailing the sea most of his years alive. This only mean one thing, and only this one thing, which is baiting.

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u/forsenE-xqcL Aug 22 '22

1.She is hot/beatiful.

Hiyori.

2.She wants to help citizens of her country who are in pain from a tyrant when Strawhats arrive.

Hiyori (& Momo).

3.Royal blodline. (Kinda).

Hiyori and Momo.

4.She gets along with Strawhats well, especially Luffy.

Momo.

5.At the end of the arc, she gets teased to join the crew, but eventually backs down because X reasons related to her country. There is however, a promise that she will meet Luffy/strawhats again and that they'll go on a adventure together.

Momo/Kinemon.

Yamato fulfills none of these roles/other characters also fulfill them if Yamato doesn't exist

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u/heavy4b Aug 22 '22

Who will be the Princess for Luffy Since zoro took hiyori?

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u/conDoriano56 Aug 22 '22

Is it bad that momo fits most of these criteria better than Yamato?

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u/EssJeeDozy Aug 23 '22

Looks at first point. Say sike rn

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u/Dillo64 Thriller Bark Victim's Association Aug 22 '22 edited Aug 22 '22

Disagree, Momo was absolutely the Vivi of the Wano arc, not Yamato.

Vivi, Shirahoshi, and Rebecca also never started their introduction with wanting to join the Straw Hat crew. That line wasn’t cast out until the very end for Vivi and was never cast for Shirahoshi or Rebecca, who never showed any interest in being pirates. Their goals were always to protect their country from the bad guy(s) who were ruining their life (Crocodile, Vanderdecken, Doffy) and after that was done their plans for the future were not clear or given.

Only Vivi considered becoming a pirate after Croc was beat, and she got 3 full chapters of contemplation about it before deciding not to for perfectly logical and acceptable reasons, and having the best send off ever. Yamato randomly decided not to for a flimsy reason that doesn’t make sense(the real Oden would NOT hesitate to go), it was completely offscreen, and he got no real send off.

Momo on the other hand got all of the attention and a great send off. Momo was the Vivi of all of this. Momo traveled with the SH through multiple arcs, has tons of growth going from a clumsy weakling to a respectable ruler, just like Vivi, and they both cemented a major country as an SH ally. Momo even had his own Karoo, his name was Kinemon.

Meanwhile, Yamato was nothing like Vivi, Yamato was more like Brook. Both were single-arc characters who right at the start were introduced and immediately purported to be joining the crew. It was a direct and immediate setup put out by Oda. However they couldn’t join right away because of a certain problem holding them back(Moria stealing Brook’s shadow/Kaido shackling Yamato). We also learn they have a major connection to a beloved character the Straw Hats have connections with (Laboon/Ace). Luffy then goes and punches that character’s problems in the face really hard and removes the thing shackling them(in Yamato’s case literally).

The difference is Oda made good on Brooks initial prospect of joining, but said “lol nah jk” for Yamato and unceremoniously shoved him out of the story inbetween chapters, so he could focus on Momo’s Vivi-style send off.

So yeah, imagine if Brook just left at the end of Thriller Bark to go start a bakery. That’s Yamato.

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u/StrawHatJD Void Month Survivor Aug 22 '22

Same role but worse execution.

Vivi and Rebecca had an intense emotional anchor to the arc itself and the crew/main characters of their respective arcs, making their moments and interactions a lot more interesting and emotional.

On the other hand, Yamato doesn’t. There’s no connection to Luffy and the crew, and Yamato’s connection to Momo feels extremely forced for the first half of their little adventure.

And Rebecca was never hyped to be a crewmember, she never even showed an inclination of wanting to go out to sea.

Yamato forced themself to want to go out to sea only to pull the most out of character 180. It would make sense if there was a character arc that was fully fleshed out for Yamato in the raid to bring them to that decision, but there wasn’t.

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u/DanielDiniz Aug 22 '22

But Yamato forced herself into Luffy and Momo. And this is why we got the impression that she would join.

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u/Azure_Triedge Aug 22 '22

ehhh. I think the closest relation is Vivi. Shirahoshi was very obviously never going to be a crew mate, and i don’t really think it was ever hinted at, especially with jimbe being there in her same arc.

with rebecca i’m not sure since i didn’t read dressrosa weekly (lucky me) but i never got an impression that rebecca would join.

There are 2 major things with yamato that differs from all 3 of these people you brought up. 1. she’s not from wano. She’s the son of the main villain, and while she does fight for wano she isn’t from wano. and 2. She more than any of those others can actually provide use to the crew. Yamato had a fairly obvious role set up for her on the crew of journaler/logkeeper. Shirahoshi and Rebecca had nothing, and i’ve seen people refer to Vivi as just “princess” which isn’t a role. Also Yamato can actually you know, fight. Obviously not every straw hat is a power house but each one of them is vastly stronger than your average pirate captain, even nami and ussop. Vivi and Rebecca are just really really useless and i would consider a detriment in any fight. Shirahoshi even more so

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u/rainazuma77 Aug 22 '22

Obviously not every straw hat is a power house but each one of them is vastly stronger than your average pirate captain, even nami and ussop. Vivi and Rebecca are just really really useless and i would consider a detriment in any fight.

I'm SO tired about this argument being used for Vivi. It's like people really forgot that before getting the Clima Tact from Usopp in Arabasta last battles, Nami was WAY weaker than Vivi, who did know how to fight, having her own weapons an all, and managing to reach a high ranking position in Baroque Works. Usopp was probably weaker than her too at that moment. Vivi had a lot of skill with her weapons, and was already able to fight and behead people with ease.

To say that Vivi would have been useless is stupid. Had she stayed in the crew, she would have got power ups like Nami and the others did. Updates in her weapons, perhaps, or some other thing.

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u/newbphil Aug 22 '22

Preach king. Imagine Vivi with armament Haki on her weapons, shit would be nuts. I'm with Randy Troy in hoping that she makes a return to the story or even a return to the crew very soon, all things are pointing that way considering she likely can't return to her Kingdom due to the WG now most likely hunting her down. Then again, we just learned that we can't trust Oda with things that seem "likely", so who knows.

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u/Zoutebanaanreeds Aug 22 '22

If she joined I would have loved for Vivi to get some dials and for Usopp to think of something wild to upgrade her current weapon but keeping the style

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u/Serious_Much Aug 22 '22

People really forgot that usopp fought his opponent with an inflatable hammer in that arc

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u/Lithorex Aug 22 '22

Vivi but her first appereance was at Alubarna

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u/Dsb0208 Aug 22 '22

I can’t speak for Revecca since I haven’t seen Dressrosa

But Vivi and Shirahoshi do a lot of stuff in their arcs. Vivi is even a character in other arcs. They have much more character writing and development.

If the point of Yamato was just for entertainment, Oda kinda dropped the ball so far. Personally a lot of their characterization so far is setting up how they’ll change later on. It’s how he’ll reach the worthiness of Oden

As of now, we’ll never know if he becomes worthy of being the new Oden. Unless he’s like a Jimbei who joins the crew later, I think Yamato’s character is a little underwhelming

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u/NinetyFish Aug 22 '22

Bro, you gotta go read Dressrosa. It's great. So underrated. It's basically Wano in terms of being super complicated, but very much unlike Wano in terms of having a crazily satisfying ending where all the set-up is actually paid off and even minor characters have a full arc.

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u/firecrackerdr Aug 22 '22

The one thing I can think of is that she gave Momo Oden’s journal, which allows him to know the purpose of Wano in the grand scheme of things.

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u/Rankine Aug 22 '22 edited Aug 23 '22

Are there no other characters who could have had Odens journal?

Tengu, Ashura, Shinobu and Denjiro were all characters that were around Wano during this time and could have been keepers of Oden’s journal.

Does the story change dramatically if one of them provides details of Oden’s journal to Momo rather than Yamato?

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u/milkyjoe241 Aug 23 '22

Denjiro would be a cool pick. He was already cool for his 20 years of subterfuge, would be cool if it included protecting special artifacts of Oden.

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u/forsenE-xqcL Aug 23 '22

It literally wouldn't have made a difference if Momo found it on some random shelf

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u/Hoshino_Ruby Chopper the Cotton Candy Lover Aug 22 '22

She's for merchandise,that's what I think.

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u/farmerdn Aug 22 '22

Then why not keep her around to sell more merchandise? New island = new clothes = new merch

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u/unoffensivename Aug 22 '22

Isn’t ace still high in popularity polls and he hasn’t been around for like 10 years.

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u/forsenE-xqcL Aug 22 '22

Ace is constantly referenced and mentioned

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u/HussyDude14 Aug 23 '22

Editors: "Hey Oda, Ace's popularity went down by 1% could you maybe create a new character who met Ace before and mentions him so he has more relevance again?"

Oda: "You mean Tama?"

Editors: "Do it again."

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u/alicitizen Aug 23 '22

Keep yamato around and you have a free excuse to shove ace flashbacks into every arc! A merchandising goldmine!

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u/ponyjc Aug 22 '22

The fact that the fans are so divided on the subject is evidence that Oda has failed to provide closure on her character arc and connect her story to Wano. It is actually very interesting how Momo and the rest so easily trust Yamato despite her lineage. Yamato could very easily be a traitor to the alliance ,she appeared during the Raid, daughter of the tyrant they are trying to take down in a plot full of betrayal. Of course it turned out Yamato can be trusted, she ended up betraying her own father and that's part of the theme of Wano.
Also part of the themes of Wano is lineage and the genocide of the Kurozumi, was Orochi evil because he was a Kurozumi or because he witnessed the murder of his entire clan? Similarly Yamato was not evil because she's Kaido's daughter, quite the opposite. Oda failed to connect these themes in the end, the acceptance of Yamato the daughter of an evil emperor by Luffy and Momo vs the rejection of Orochi a long descendant of the Kurozumi clan. Luffy accepted Yamato, showing Momo, who was just betrayed by Kanjuro Kurozumi, that they can accept people regardless of lineage. In the end Oda didn't show any connection for the reader on these themes with Yamato, instead we get the opposite with the Hiyori play scene condemning the Kurozumi name with a catchy pun that kids and Wano citizens are already chanting, and I think that is why a lot of people are left wondering what was the point of Wano in the end?

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u/Kata_Kuri36 Cipher Pol Aug 22 '22

I don’t want to downgrade or rather stick my nose up odas ass but I honestly believe the editor could’ve played a role in her addition.

Just like the supernovas it wasn’t originally in odas draft that’s my thought. So he played with her and decides what to do later.

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u/r3d27 Aug 22 '22

I agree with this. Lots of people are giving Oda the benefit of the doubt and assuming this is part of some complex theme or elaborate plot line, but more realistically it feels like Oda is just doing what he usually does which is taking things slowly and improvising. When we got the end of wano he decided he didn’t want her to join, probably for no deep reason other than he just didn’t feel like it after telling her story.

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u/jeanlesalle The Revolutionary Army Aug 22 '22

But he didnt have to build her character around the idea of leaving until the last panel of hapter 1056, only to reverse that decision at the very last moment. Plit twist are great when there is something you could have seen coming. If zoro killed luffy, it would be surprising but trash. She had an important role and her emotional journey played a large role in the raid, especially in the anime with 1015. Those added scene were very touching, with luffy being the last hope she had of freeing her for 2 years. To then change mind at the ladt possible second is, imo, going against what oda told us

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u/Kata_Kuri36 Cipher Pol Aug 22 '22

I agree with you I am also disappointed thats she won’t join (for now lol) but I am very against the movement to bash the whole writing based on one decision the author made. It would be very bad writing if jinbei decided next chapter I dont want to join anymore you are strong enough lol

My point is there is a huge issue with overcrowding in the last couple of arcs so oda chose to stay within the 10 people roster for now and for the 2 next possible arcs before going all out in the final arc.

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u/Aphrodite-descendant Aug 22 '22

I'm trying to wait another chapter for any twist but I'm already extremely disappointed at this point thinking that she's just merely a fan service

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u/Majestic_Leg7777 Aug 22 '22

Oda fucked it up

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u/SuperWeeble12 Aug 22 '22

I believe she was intended to be Momo's retainer. She is his mirror in a few ways, Kaido's child who idolizes Oden vs Oden's child with the powers of Kaido, both are exactly the same age (28), one wishes to leave wano while the other wishes to come back... Yamato spent pretty much the entire arc babysitting him and she is the only one by his side in the final chapter with Kinemon. Basically her purpose was to further Momo's character, she doesn't really exist as her own, she is Momo's sideckick but because she got so much screentime and has such a cool design, people thought she was intended to be more that that.

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u/OldTension9220 Aug 22 '22

I think the Momo’s retainer angle would have been satisfying for Yamato IF Kinemon had died and he had lost the Scabbard he was closest to. Then there would have been a clear gap to fill. Now Yamato is just one of many Kozuki retainers who will fight for Momo.

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u/Azure_Triedge Aug 22 '22

honestly, that would’ve been perfect

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u/schiffb558 Aug 23 '22

Kinemon NOT dying in Wano when all the flags were there was one of the biggest wasted opportunities in this arc.

Yet Izo and Ashura do, even though the injuries they sustained would've been survivable by most anyone else.

Uh...okay? Thanks?

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u/thatpigoverthere Aug 22 '22

Except that she's kinda isnt. Minor characters dont usually have that much screen time and flashback that even overshadow the MAIN ANTAGONIST of the whole arc. Unless Oda truly has future plan for her, people will see him wrote Yamato as an important figure, yet back down at the last minute

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u/szerdrew Aug 22 '22

I don't disagree with them being Momo's retainer. Perfectly fine and fits great with Yamato cosplaying Oden.

Except we also spent years with Yamato saying "imma join luffy" as frequently as luffy says "imma be king of the pirates". Then as soon as it was time to leave Wano, suddenly Yamato is staying there. Had there been an on-screen convo between Luffy, Yamato, and Momo where this character development and change of heart took place, that would have resolved 90% of the critiques people (or at least myself) have for Yamato.

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u/TolSep Prisoner Aug 22 '22

Except we also spent years with Yamato saying "imma join luffy" as frequently as luffy says "imma be king of the pirates"

imagine luffy also doing 180º about being the pirate king at the end when he is about to get the one piece 😂

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u/szerdrew Aug 22 '22

Well we have to explain Pirate King Buggy one way or the other lol

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u/MadghastOfficial Aug 22 '22

The way the story is going, that's not even a meme anymore. I could legitimately see Luffy finding the one piece, giving whatever it is to Buggy for the fame, and dying.

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u/21understanding Aug 22 '22

Not just "people thought" tho, but also Oda played a role in what made that thought.

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u/prvhc21 Aug 22 '22

Fan service

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u/1BottleOfCocaCola Aug 22 '22

She doesn't need to serve a pivotal role in the larger story when she's got such tremendous P L O T and N A R R A T I V E.

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u/Heydude1001 Aug 22 '22

This argument is weak since it will have more fanservice if she joins but she didn't. So that not the reason.

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u/IDJPunkI Aug 22 '22

This is why I'm convinced Oda changed his mind recently. None of it makes any sense from a narrative standpoint.

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u/More_Win_5192 Aug 22 '22

Exactly, I see you alot lately ezio and we think pretty similar

Wiper, vivi, Rebecca etc were representations of the people btw, oda likes to involve native people to make the problem more personal

In wano he had already the scabbards, that's why Yamato feels extra off

Yamato did not need to exist and the story would lose nothing, which is really sad

Just have the remaining strawhats stall kaido on the tip of their toes, gives more stakes to luffy, gives more screen time to strawhats and that's it

If Yamato wasn't build up to join the crew, she has no meaningful impact at all

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u/HokageEzio Aug 22 '22

Yep. We had our people who were suffering from Kaido's rule long before we got to Wano. But then Yamato shows up in Onigashima and we focus on all the shit Kaido put her through all at once to build her up. And for what? Nothing really, at the end of the day. She's basically just another Grand Fleet member, about on the level of a Marco. Which is fine, Marco is sick, but that doesn't mean we needed to follow her around so closely.

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u/Tricky-Drawer4614 Aug 22 '22

I felt like Oda planned on something for her character and realized what a mistake it would have been on the grand scheme of things and backed out on it.

That or her purpose was to sell merch

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u/akzorx Aug 22 '22

She had the honor, the privilege, the groundbreaking opportunity to be fanservice

Aaaaaand that's about it

Big tiddy sells merch, after all

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u/No_Branch_7496 Aug 22 '22

Oda messed up, simple as that.

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u/Swagd Aug 22 '22 Silver

I think Yamato's purpose at this moment is to give a deeper insight into Kaido as a villain, in the same way that Katakuri really lets us see how Big Mom's family reeeeeallly operates, providing more depth to Kaido that was relevant in the moment. Yamato took a while to grow on me whereas other characters that serve this role became my faves immediately, so I definitely understand where they are not particularly liked.

When I read One Piece I see the major theme of parents and the same gender children they raise which is frequently juxtaposed with the relationship to their biological parents (not unique at all but a major theme that is used to compare Luffy and the Strawhats to other pirates). Some of the examples I see are:

  • Garp/Shanks and Luffy as opposed to Dragon (parent)
  • Whitebeard and Ace as opposed to Roger (parent)
  • Tom and Franky as opposed to his birth parents (parent)
  • Bellemere and Nami as opposed to her birth parents
  • Zeff and Sanji as opposed to Judge (parent)
  • And arguably through his journal Oden and Yamato as opposed to Kaido (parent)

These relationships give snapshots into otherwise inaccessible characters so we see who they are as human beings and don't have to have entire arcs dedicated to backstory or entirely made of flashbacks; we can see who they are in snapshots of how they interact with their children. Flashbacks in One Piece are great at showing us how characters:

  • Got to where they physically are today
  • Became who they are
  • or show us that they have been this way for so long and get us on board with their defeat

With that being said, I don't think Yamato was entirely pointless and just to sell merch--each Yonkou we have seen in-depth/for a long period on screen has a family dynamic to explore. Big Mom and her children, Whitebeard and his sons, and now Kaido and his son Yamato. I think it's part of the larger conversation about what defines the now ended era of piracy. You had

  • Whitebeard and Roger's pre-Yonkou era where the two great pirates were family oriented leaders
  • Enter the Yonkou-era where strength and territory are the marker of a great pirate and you see that reflected in Kaido and Big Mom's style of leadership
  • Now the new era led by the Worst Generation is built on more trust and healing of the wounds that Kaido and Big Mom brought into the pirate world.

While Yamato doesn't really change much in the world, I think they showcase this theme of parenthood and, by extension where Luffy and his crew are healing the world that was being harmed by horrible parent pirates that are also the leaders of the world. Yamato gives us more insight into Kaido's character and just what type of villain he is, while also showing (unlike Katakuri and the BM pirates) that there is room to push back on your tyrannical parents and chart your own future. Yamato being "raised" by Oden via his journal gets to that. I almost see it as a "What if Katakuri knew there was a better world out there?", showing the ability to break the cycles of abuse that created the current era that doesn't require Luffy to change their mind, which is a refreshing take imo in the Yonkou saga, where Luffy is always changing minds. This time he doesn't have to with a new powerful ally.

I also think the Yamato/Kaido flashbacks are a bit more relevant to what we needed this arc in terms of Kaido's backstory as well--this man/beast is the most powerful and ruthless pirate in the New World based on the lore, and he needs to be built up as a villain who needs to be taken down to bring forward the new era. He can come back changed later, but not in the way other characters have accepted Luffy's will; these two emperors need to be ironclad in their commitments and have to be defeated in ways that reflect that. Yamato serves as a tool to show us just what Kaido is capable of and willing to do to their own children to prove their supremacy, but with physical abuse vs emotional abuse like Big Mom. We needed a big bad villain who is objectively bad post-Doflamingo to root for Luffy to defeat and the way Kaido was built especially using Yamato was necessary to drive that home without sympathy.

Again, not looking to sway anyone with this, just explaining where I see the use of Yamato and why I can appreciate the character.

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u/Eminence_Kuro Aug 22 '22

I like this take!

Watch Blackbeard have a completely loyal lovechild lol

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u/Ravaha Pirate Aug 22 '22

Yeah, It is an example of shitty writing by Oda who should know better than to subvert expectations on something so heavily foreshadowed and so heavily paralleled. You are basically getting the reader hyped up for something for months or however long it has been and then hes just yanking the rug for no reason other than just to mess with the readers.

This doesnt make the story better, it makes it worse. You should be able to trust foreshadowing and parallels by the author, especially ones as blatant as Oda did this arc.

It pissed me off so much I actually despised this chapter a great deal, its probably in my top 5 least favorite chapters of all time and I have been reading weekly since 2007.

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u/Overgrown_Rover15 Aug 22 '22

Her purpose is to make everyone hyped for a cool new character to join the crew, all so that Oda can fuck us all over and subvert expectations.

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u/MadghastOfficial Aug 22 '22

Star wars style

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u/andmurr Aug 22 '22

I agree, I love Yamato’s design but honestly the Wano arc would have been better off without her, that would’ve trimmed down the arc by like 20-30 chapters and it would still work fine

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u/Los-Ingobernable Aug 22 '22

Idk if this means anything at this point, but I think Yamato serves as Momo's parallel and contrast at the same time. Yamato wants to be Oden, while Momo somehow became like Kaido, tho only physically.

On the side, i get why people would question her existence in Wano, but i think she doesn't have to have a clear cut purpose in wano, but she does become a future ally, which is actually better imo, since she already has the backgrounds to her character come the final supposed war.

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u/dingus-croissant Aug 22 '22

considering pluton is in Wano, its pretty obvious that Wano is a recurring location. she was probably set up for a future arc that will involve Wano

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u/GrayJinjo Aug 22 '22

She’s a cool character that was introduced to help Luffy and the alliance fight Kaido during the raid.

I don’t like that Oda decided to bait his audience by having her constantly say she wanted to sail with Luffy once she was free, but she did have a purpose.

I know a lot of people are pissed she didn’t join, but that didn’t make her character pointless. It’s okay if you’re mad that Oda wrote her the way he did.

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u/Abysss1 The Revolutionary Army Aug 23 '22

The point is that Yamato’s addition didn’t really add much to the story in comparison to the amount of focus she got. If her only purpose was to aid in the raid then she didn’t need as much screen time as she got or quite frankly didn’t need to exist at all in exchange for the mountain of characters that could have used more defining moments.

A minor character should not be taking away from the main characters stories. There’s not anything Yamato add’s to the Wano that wasn’t already provided or could have been provided by a character that was existed prior.

On top of that with all the focus she took up Oda just leaves her arc unfinished, through a character defining decision that is off screened and then the arc promptly wraps up. It honestly feels like she was just forced in for no real reason in the final hour, treated as a main character and then at the last minute Oda decided nope nevermind

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u/concioussun Aug 22 '22

To me it was more of a parallel bridging of Oden's son getting kaido's df Kaido's son getting Oden's persona

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u/prvhc21 Aug 22 '22

Yamato doesn’t have Oden’s persona 😂

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u/HikenNoAsxce Tashigi Best Girl' | Fan Club (Unofficial) Aug 22 '22

I think Yamato served two purposes.

  1. Add another strong fighter to the Allaince.
  2. Someone to carry on, Oden's Legacy.

The Brutally Honest take here is that Oda has bitten off more than he can chew. Oda has been really struggling to maintain a consistent pace with Wano. The opening of Wano was typical Oda, slow rolls where you can expect every aspect and element of the story to be explored. But by the end of it Oda was just rushing through things.

Dressrosa had fewer chareacters and smaller stakes. And it took Oda 3 years to tell his story. BUT now with Wano everything is much bigger. We have Beast Pirates, Minks, Kid Pirates, 2 New Haki, Oden Flashback, Hiyori, Momo, Nika, Sanji's New Abilities, Big Mom, AND SO MUCH MORE.

Oda has clearly struggled to keep everything on track. Just look at how small the King & Queen fights were. 2 Yonko Commanders lost in what feels like minutes. Because Oda had to wrap those fights early for RoofPiece (Not hating on Roof Piece).

Remember two characters died in this story and we didn't even get a proper funeral or reaction from the others. We haven't heard anything about sword, even though it seemed very important to the whole Drake/Kaido story.

The point I'm making is NOT "WaNo iS bAd!" I am simply arguing that Oda has started to sacrifice story elements in order to keep his ending on track. I Bet if Oda gave Wano another year or two, we would get a much better story with Yamato.

This isn't something new. Most mangaka struggle to bring their story to a close. Kishimoto was never prepared for a War anime and it showed in the ending of Naruto. Solo Leveling went from "boy learns to be strong" to "time traveling demon lord saves the universe from angles?".

One Piece worked best when it was the story of Jolly Luffy and the Gang beating up a big-name Pirate (Arlong, Crocodile, Moriah, Doffy, etc.). However, Luffy is now the Big Name Pirate and he is on a journey to literally change the world. The story needs to shift and Oda is trying his best. I think we should honestly ignore some of the issues with Wano. Wano is still a fun arc and just because Oda has fallen short on some bits, it doesn't negate all the other good stuff.

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u/guipabi Void Month Survivor Aug 22 '22

And I think a big problem of Wano is the format of manga itself. A book author would have been able to edit and change plot points that they found less interesting before publishing. Because of the nature of manga this is not as easy. I imagine that his plans for Wano were bigger, but he realized that it would mean too much time spent there. Unfortunately, he must have realized that when the arc was already pretty advanced, and so he rushed some parts (he admitted to cut stuff like Fukurukuju backstory).

On the point of fights, Oda said that he was a bit tired of drawing them. One piece has never been a battle manga where strategy and abilities are super important during a fight. Fights are more about the themes and the crew surpassing their limits. The crew fights in Onigashima served that purpose, but to me, they lacked impact in the overall raid. Yes, they saved many lives by defeating the enemies, but they didn't do much afterwards, and their defeat didn't change the battle too much (everything still depended on Luffy). Compare that with Alabasta (finding the bomb in the clock tower), Skypea (they all fought Enel after their individual fights), Ennies Lobby (they got the keys)... In Wano they defeated their enemies and just...stood around fighting. I think it would have been nice to see the samurai taking control of the different areas where the Tobi Roppo and the Calamities were defeated to show that the battles had a real impact on the raid (even though we know they did).

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u/Elerein Thriller Bark Victim's Association Aug 22 '22

Yamato is the counterpart of Momo. The son of Kaido that idolises Oden, unline Momo that is the son of Oden that is like Kaido (in their dragon form).

Also, I hope Yamato joins after the SH reach Lodestar, just like Oden.

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u/CryWolf007 Aug 22 '22

Yamato's most important role in Wano was to become the medium for Oden's adventure 20 years ago. You shouldnt just dismiss it as her only existing to give Ace fanservice. Without her existence, the history of Oden, WB, and Roger 20 years ago wouldn't have been presented to the reader. The main reason why people thought that her possible role in the crew, should she join, was to become their chronicler is exactly because of her role during the Onigashima raid.

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u/HokageEzio Aug 22 '22

Without her existence, the history of Oden, WB, and Roger 20 years ago wouldn't have been presented to the reader.

Right, except we got an entire Oden flashback before Yamato existed...

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